Prestige and Tier 4 perks

gatsby

I think an amazing way to buff prestige and to finally give Survivors some uniqueness would be Tier 4 perks.

Pretty simple concept. Three unique perks. Three levels of prestige. Each prestige unlocks an extra level to a perk. They'd only be usable on their Survivor and all teachables would be capped at Tier 3. Tier 4 would just follow the natural progression pattern most perks have all ready.

(Iron Will is 125% reduction so it soft counters Stridor. WGLF can have 5 stacks. Exhaustion Perks only make you exhausted for 30 seconds. Fixated lets you walk 25% faster. Unbreakable lets you get up 40% faster etc.)

Nothing fundamentally changes about perks. Just numbers tweaks to make a Tier 4. I can't see anything being completely busted and even if a perk ends up being a little strong you can't combine meta perks at Tier 4 because you can only have them on their specific character.

Frankie

ANOTHER tier of perks? The grind is one of the biggest and most criticized issues in the game. We don't need a whole other tier of perks.

This is an awful idea. Tiered perks should be removed, not made into more. At the very least, once you hit prestige 3, only tier 3 perks should be on the bloodweb.

gatsby

@Frankie said:

ANOTHER tier of perks? The grind is one of the biggest and most criticized issues in the game. We don't need a whole other tier of perks.

This is an awful idea. Tiered perks should be removed, not made into more. At the very least, once you hit prestige 3, only tier 3 perks should be on the bloodweb.

Prestige isn't part of the grind. It's an extra way to show off with your favorite characters. Tier 4 Perks would be part of that.

Is a 30 second exhaustion Sprint Burst worth prestiging Meg for if you're not a dedicated Meg main who will use it a lot? Not really.

MrPotato

@Frankie said:

ANOTHER tier of perks? The grind is one of the biggest and most criticized issues in the game. We don't need a whole other tier of perks.

This is an awful idea. Tiered perks should be removed, not made into more. At the very least, once you hit prestige 3, only tier 3 perks should be on the bloodweb.

I have never heard of perk tiers or grinding being a large issue in my soon to be four years of playing, lol.

Higher tier perks would be nice, but only on kyf at least for a long time after they get introduced, and maybe if they add game modes that could be one of them.

As for prestige rewards, maybe for what tier prestige you have, your teachables get upgraded to the next tier, so either tier 1 still has tier 1 perks and tier 3 gets tier 3 perks or tier 1 upgrades it to 2 and tier 2 gets the tier 3s and nothing changes at prestige 3. Another way, which is probably much easier to add in, is to just open up the perk slots without reaching a level, so tier 1 opens the second slot, and tier 3 opens all 4 slots instantly.

There actually is a reason to prestige too, you get better rarity items in the blood webs, like green and purple addons instead of brown and yellow and i believe it gets better depending on the prestige tier.

Also would love to see a prestige 4 that changes certain things like killer powers for the killers and maybe what items look like for survivors? It would not be the easiest thing to make but it would still be amazing to have skins and bloody variants of hillbilly's chainsaw or wraith's cloak/decloak sizzle thing.

Ok that's enough of that lmao

Frankie

@MrPotato said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1328933#Comment_1328933

I have never heard of perk tiers or grinding being a large issue in my soon to be four years of playing, lol.

Higher tier perks would be nice, but only on kyf at least for a long time after they get introduced, and maybe if they add game modes that could be one of them.

As for prestige rewards, maybe for what tier prestige you have, your teachables get upgraded to the next tier, so either tier 1 still has tier 1 perks and tier 3 gets tier 3 perks or tier 1 upgrades it to 2 and tier 2 gets the tier 3s and nothing changes at prestige 3. Another way, which is probably much easier to add in, is to just open up the perk slots without reaching a level, so tier 1 opens the second slot, and tier 3 opens all 4 slots instantly.

There actually is a reason to prestige too, you get better rarity items in the blood webs, like green and purple addons instead of brown and yellow and i believe it gets better depending on the prestige tier.

Also would love to see a prestige 4 that changes certain things like killer powers for the killers and maybe what items look like for survivors? It would not be the easiest thing to make but it would still be amazing to have skins and bloody variants of hillbilly's chainsaw or wraith's cloak/decloak sizzle thing.

Ok that's enough of that lmao

If you've never heard of the grind being an issue, you obviously don't pay much attention. No offense intended; but it's talked about quite a bit how they go on and on about the "new player experience" yet, the grind exists.

gatsby

@Frankie said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1329089#Comment_1329089

If you've never heard of the grind being an issue, you obviously don't pay much attention. No offense intended; but it's talked about quite a bit how they go on and on about the "new player experience" yet, the grind exists.

The majority of players are Survivor and in general the Survivors have very good base perks. Hence why the Devs don't feel the need to change anything. The vast majority of the Survivor meta perks have existed since 2016.

Killers are a completely different story, but they're a minority and giving them bad non-DLC perks means new Survivor players have easier games.

There's a method to the madness.

Dead_by_Gadfly

@MrPotato said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1328933#Comment_1328933

I have never heard of perk tiers or grinding being a large issue in my soon to be four years of playing, lol.

Higher tier perks would be nice, but only on kyf at least for a long time after they get introduced, and maybe if they add game modes that could be one of them.

As for prestige rewards, maybe for what tier prestige you have, your teachables get upgraded to the next tier, so either tier 1 still has tier 1 perks and tier 3 gets tier 3 perks or tier 1 upgrades it to 2 and tier 2 gets the tier 3s and nothing changes at prestige 3. Another way, which is probably much easier to add in, is to just open up the perk slots without reaching a level, so tier 1 opens the second slot, and tier 3 opens all 4 slots instantly.

There actually is a reason to prestige too, you get better rarity items in the blood webs, like green and purple addons instead of brown and yellow and i believe it gets better depending on the prestige tier.

Also would love to see a prestige 4 that changes certain things like killer powers for the killers and maybe what items look like for survivors? It would not be the easiest thing to make but it would still be amazing to have skins and bloody variants of hillbilly's chainsaw or wraith's cloak/decloak sizzle thing.

Ok that's enough of that lmao

Ive been on tge forums a month and seen at least 3 threads on it. Tge grind is legit a problem at this point

Dreamnomad

I posted a similar idea in the past.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/21841/free-perks-for-everyone

Lazerboy88

@MrPotato said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1328933#Comment_1328933

I have never heard of perk tiers or grinding being a large issue in my soon to be four years of playing, lol.

Higher tier perks would be nice, but only on kyf at least for a long time after they get introduced, and maybe if they add game modes that could be one of them.

As for prestige rewards, maybe for what tier prestige you have, your teachables get upgraded to the next tier, so either tier 1 still has tier 1 perks and tier 3 gets tier 3 perks or tier 1 upgrades it to 2 and tier 2 gets the tier 3s and nothing changes at prestige 3. Another way, which is probably much easier to add in, is to just open up the perk slots without reaching a level, so tier 1 opens the second slot, and tier 3 opens all 4 slots instantly.

There actually is a reason to prestige too, you get better rarity items in the blood webs, like green and purple addons instead of brown and yellow and i believe it gets better depending on the prestige tier.

Also would love to see a prestige 4 that changes certain things like killer powers for the killers and maybe what items look like for survivors? It would not be the easiest thing to make but it would still be amazing to have skins and bloody variants of hillbilly's chainsaw or wraith's cloak/decloak sizzle thing.

Ok that's enough of that lmao

Im pretty sure it’s confirmed that the increase rarity is basically nothing/nonexistent

DelsKibara

@MrPotato said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1328933#Comment_1328933

I have never heard of perk tiers or grinding being a large issue in my soon to be four years of playing, lol.

Higher tier perks would be nice, but only on kyf at least for a long time after they get introduced, and maybe if they add game modes that could be one of them.

As for prestige rewards, maybe for what tier prestige you have, your teachables get upgraded to the next tier, so either tier 1 still has tier 1 perks and tier 3 gets tier 3 perks or tier 1 upgrades it to 2 and tier 2 gets the tier 3s and nothing changes at prestige 3. Another way, which is probably much easier to add in, is to just open up the perk slots without reaching a level, so tier 1 opens the second slot, and tier 3 opens all 4 slots instantly.

There actually is a reason to prestige too, you get better rarity items in the blood webs, like green and purple addons instead of brown and yellow and i believe it gets better depending on the prestige tier.

Also would love to see a prestige 4 that changes certain things like killer powers for the killers and maybe what items look like for survivors? It would not be the easiest thing to make but it would still be amazing to have skins and bloody variants of hillbilly's chainsaw or wraith's cloak/decloak sizzle thing.

Ok that's enough of that lmao

You might wanna do the math like I did, it's only going to get exponentially far worse with each new chapter.

@DelsKibara said:

https://i2.wp.com/nerdlodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/killerbloodpointsdbd.png?fit=1920%2C1080&ssl=1

We all know Dead by Daylight is known for it's Grind. It's what keeps us playing the game, it's what keeps us going through the same loops over and over again and it's why we love to play this game getting as much points as we possibly can for every single match. It's why farm games exists and why (some) people love it when they pop up because it gives them a chance to get a ton of guaranteed bloodpoints for everyone involved in the match.

With that said, I think The Massive Grind is going to become a real issue real soon. Especially with new players who are just joining the game and started playing.

I calculated the amount of Bloodpoints needed to get every single character to Prestige 3, Level 50 with all Perks obtained. Prepare to see some huge numbers.

Since I want to talk about new players specifically, I'll focus on the one thing most new players will most likely do when they first start playing the game. Get as much teachables as they can as soon as possible. Because they want to have fun builds, they want to be able to survive against Killers or Survivors who have (arguably) better perks than them. So let's just assume this New Player wants to grind for every teachable in the game. First they would need to level every Character to Level 40 at a minimum.

It takes a minimum of around 1,250,000 Bloodpoints to get a single character to Level 40. Let's then multiply that with every character that is currently in DBD, there are currently 21 Survivors and 19 Killers. Bringing the number to a total of 40 Characters to level up to Level 40. Which brings the amount of Bloodpoints you need to 50 Million Bloodpoints. If you show this to a new player, they would find this to be incredibly daunting and tedious.

But I hear you asking, "Kibara! Not every one of those characters has perks that are worth to grab!" And you would be right. So let's just remove the characters whose entire perk deck are not in the current meta, very situational or are just not worth to grab in general (Bolded Perks are up for debate on whether or not they are worth getting):

• Ace Visconti (Up the Ante, Open Handed, Ace in the Hole)
• Quentin Smith (Wake Up!, Vigil, Pharmacy)
• Jeff Johansen (Distortion, Aftercare, Breakdown)
• Ash Williams (Mettle of Man, Buckle Up, Flip Flop)
• Steve Harrington (Babysitter, Camaraderie, Second Wind)
• Zarina Kassir (Red Herring, Off the Record, For the People!)
• The Huntress (Beast of Prey, Territorial Imperative, Hex: Huntress Lullaby)
• The Demogorgon (Surge, Mindbreaker, Cruel Limits)
• The Oni (Zanshin Tactics, Blood Echo, Nemesis)
• The Deathslinger (Gearhead, Dead Man's Switch, Hex: Retribution)

And with that, we eliminated 10 (at least in my opinion) characters that you don't need to grind for because their perks are (arguably) not worth to grind for. That still leaves us with 30 characters whose perks are definitely worth grinding for though. Not only do these 30 characters have useful perks, some of them are downright powerful that you would be nuts to not get as soon as possible.

You would be nuts to not go for Dead Hard or BBQ & Chili from the start of your DBD Career, because these perks really REALLY help out a lot in escaping, chasing, detecting or even giving you free Bloodpoints.

Now that we have that sorted out, how much BP do we have to spend now?

37,500,000.

That is STILL A LOT of Bloodpoints. And to any new players, if they saw this number they would find that incredibly discouraging. Because they see the cap is 1 Million Bloodpoints, so they would think 1 Million is a lot of Bloodpoints.

Oho, but we're not yet done with the Grind Train yet, my friends. It gets even more exponentially expensive. It's like playing an Idle Game except you need to always be active to gain cash.

Let's assume those new players become regular players, and they want to fully prestige their characters. They see those bloody outfits and they want their own characters to look like that. Well, if they want to fully Prestige their characters with level 50 on all of them, lets do the math again then, shall we?

To get a Level 1 Character to Level 50, you need roughly around 1,750,000 Bloodpoints. To get A SINGLE CHARACTER to Prestige 3-50, you need to multiply that number 4 times. Meaning the grand total amount, the MINIMUM amount you need to spend on a single character to fully max out their levels is 7,000,000 Bloodpoints.

Yikes! That's already around 1/6th of the amount of Bloodpoints required to gain every teachable that is worth it in the game.

And of course, per our formula, we need to then multiply that number by 40 (assuming they want to prestige every single character in the game to it's max level). After that, we get a grand total of 280,000,000 Bloodpoints to max out every single character is this damn game.

That is a ridiculously large amount of Bloodpoints. I've played for 1.5k Hours in this game and I've only accumulated around 100,000,000 Bloodpoints myself. But hey, you can argue that it needs to be that expensive because Prestiging a character is Optional. You don't have to do it, which is why it's so expensive, it shows you're willing to put more time into the game. And I get that, it is meant to be more of a reward system for loyal players rather than an actual grind you have to overcome.

But what if you want to experiment with Perk Builds? Something that is a part of the game, and arguably, half the fun of Dead by Daylight to some people (myself included).

You would obviously need every single perk in the game to be able to actually experiment with the perks you want to play with. And here is where the massive numbers come in.

It takes roughly around 35 Million Bloodpoints to get every single perk in the game, and that is already close to the minimum we need to get for every single TEACHABLE that is worth to grab from the various characters in DBD. Reduce the number you need for Level 50, and you still need 33,250,000 Bloodpoints. (Keep in mind, I am assuming this character is Prestige 3, which means they already need to spend 5,250,000 Bloodpoints already on a single character.)

Arguably, you can be conservative and say that since every Survivor plays the same. You only need to get it for one Survivor and you'll be able to play with every perk in the game as much as you fancy.

But what if you play Killer?

Every killer plays differently, meaning not every build will work for every single one of them. You may need to mix-and-match separate perks to see what works well for you for that particular killer. So, you might end up grinding Bloodpoints to earn every single perk in the game, for every single Killer in the game if you don't have a single main you always play as.

Meaning, once again, we take the number 38,500,000 Bloodpoints (Assuming they start from Level 1), and we multiply that by 19.... And we get...

731,500,000 Bloodpoints.

And that is the best case scenario, that is assuming the Bloodweb doesn't screw you over by eating up multiple perks at once which has happened to me loads of times when I was maxing out Spirit. That is still a ridiculously huge amount of Bloodpoints, especially for Killers.

Now, if we add up every single Survivor as well, that number skyrockets to...

1,540,000,000 Bloodpoints.

Seeing this number and doing the math makes me think that perks like BBQ and WGLF are sometimes Mandatory because of how ridiculous this grind can be.

This reminds me a lot of PAYDAY 2 prior to them adding the Crime Spree mechanic. You needed to grind hours upon upon of XP to get to Infamy-XXV and you get diminishing returns because doing the best heist in the game for XP over and over again will incur you an XP penalty. It was brutal and unforgiving.

With Crime Spree, yeah the heists became harder but the rewards became much more worth it, it became much more rewarding and the time spent to grind greatly diminished making it easier to grind for Infamy-XXV.

But DBD has nothing like that, With BBQ you'd be lucky if you got 64,000 Bloodpoints in a single match. I just cannot fathom how someone, especially DBD Content Creators, could spend that much hours, that many matches of the same game to max out every character in the game to it's fullest potential. It must be a huge feeling of relief when you finally reach there.

After doing the math, I really hope BHVR takes a look at BP gains, or at least the Bloodweb Mechanic. Because right now DBD is incredibly hostile to new players, and it's driving people away more than it encourages them to stay because of that looming grind over their heads. And I think it would be better for the game, and the playerbase as a whole, if the grind was not this huge.

That's all I have to say regarding the Grind in Dead by Daylight.

Thank you for coming to yet another one of my TED Talks, it is now 6 AM and I have not slept.