Venjamin
Venjamin
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- Venjamin
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844860#Comment_3844860
This is kinda my point though, Billy is simple enough to use mechanically, but it's not that simple to catch good survivors. You're probably looking at the region of 800 killer hours before you're likely to start consistently facing survivors that will really start making you work for hits, and the scariest part is, those survivors are still pretty meh.
You have to remember Billy has been mostly the same since his release (barring insta-saw nerfs and overheat/overdrive). Billy at base is basically the same as Billy always was ever dince his day 1 release. His chainsaw "spammability" that people are suddenly complaining about now has been with the character since day 1... and the Overheat mechanic was so slow to build up it basically didn't matter 98% of the time. There is no argument you have here that is not also applicable to old Billy.
Quite simply, the thing that makes Billy strong now is Overdrive.
Telegraphing isn't a huge deal. Part of that is mindgaming. If Billy wins the mindgame, he wins the chase. If he loses the mindgame, he gets to rev and go again.
Yes but you're missing the point, a good survivor will easily be able to read you and dodge. I can't do this consistently well myself, but I'mnot bad, and I've seen survivors who can, and they can be downright untouchable by even the most solid of Billy players.
Maybe I'm confused here, but most people on Billy have an ample hit box. A strong flick does allow them to re-orient and bring the chainsaw down at an angle.
The scenarios you describe here are likely lag, cause in my experience Hillbilly can't flick and hit downwards, his hitbox is very tight and unforgiving, far more so than any other comparable killer which given how dangerous this ability is, makes sense.
The time to charge isn't that slow, so I'm kind of confused by this assertion. Especially if the Billy is intentionally charging/letting go to bait when his sprint fires. He should have difficulties at some loops.
My post above explains it clearer. The technique you're describing is feathering, and the longer he feathers, the longer he spends slower than the survivor. Billy has windows at structures where he can curve, and windows where he can't. If a survivor understands those windows, that feeds into the mind games, and used properly can make it very hard for Billy to hit.
Overdrive felt unwieldy the first few times I tried it, but it didn't take terribly long to course correct with it.
Overdrive is Billy's strongest ability, and when used right, let's him get hits in places he normally can't... this pushes Billy into the top tier he is.
Personally, I don't think Overdrive is necessary for Billy. When he got given it, I didn't complain, and still don't cause I like facing Billy... but it's this powers ability to always grant a instantdown if Hillbilly plays it perfectly that makes Hillbilly the top tier characters he is now.
I see the arguments against it, and see teh arguments for it... and personally I'm on the fence...
However I will fight against anyone saying Billy is OP for any other reason than Overdrive...because if that were true, Billy would have been overpowered with his old recovery add-ons, and he simply wasn't.
I will admit, I had zero issue with Billy when he had the overheat mechanic. It required Billy to actually make choices about when and how to use his power. Now, he doesn't have to. Since they got rid of overheat, I've had an issue with him, for the main reason of not ever requiring him to play the game outside of his power.
Overdrive doesn't change the math, for me. If they took it away, I would still think Billy is top tier, right next to Nurse. Any time you are able to use a power simultaneously for infinite mobility and instantly cutting a chase in half, you're going to win with it.
(Sorry, I'm not sure how to cut quotes inline here.)
The majority of my hours are on survivor, and I've watched Billy win match after match on the back of never m1ing. And, depending on the Billy, I can run them solidly around a lot of structures. That doesn't change the fact that eventually, he WILL get me. And he WILL get an insta-down. No survivor, no matter the skill, is 'untouchable.' And the pressure that Billy applies because immediately after that he can rocket across the map is immense.
Flicking for Billy is pretty substantial, but it's only to the left or right of his current position. Downward isn't an option, when I say "bring it down at an angle" I just mean that he can swing left or right from his 'stopping' point. He's not like Oni that can flick… kind of insanely. But he can 'miss' and still hit if he turns hard enough at the end of his swing. (Who, I might add, I have ZERO issue with facing, even if the Oni is a master of the flick bug.)
If BHVR came out and turned off Overdrive, I'd still hate Billy, because it costs him nothing to be immaculate. The player skill is required to hit a mechanical threshold, for sure, because if you just keep bumping into everything, that's… not an effective use. But the fact that even if you bump, you just do it again? There needs to be SOMETHING that makes Billy earn his power. Nurse should be the only one at Nurse tier, and again, Billy is kind of right there.
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@SoGo said:
If there was a reward for the most clickbait-y title of a discussion, this one would be high up.
I'm sorry, the brainrot got me.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432752/different-views-on-billy
This feels like shameless advertising XD
No this is perfect.
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@UndeddJester said:
I have to ask, and this is not being elitist or 'git gud' or anything, but... how many hours have you actually put into killer, and how much have you played Billy?
The reason I ask is contrary to popular opinion, MMR does actually work quite well, particularly when you are in low-mid tiers of DBD (where the bulk of the player base is) and younfollow the bloodpoint bonuses. The skill of the survivors is important for Billy. I play on console, and even on old Billy I could still chainsaw people down to a decent degree while I was still relatively new to the killer and in lower MMR, and yes this is on crossplay.
After his buffs I got even better at it, but now I'm going up against halfway decent survivors, and even in his current buffed state, Billy is VERY hard, as you'd expect for console... but if you're saying you've genuinely mastered him in 3 games, I would still pit my 150+ games of Billy against that, and I would also pit the experience of all the Billy mains over 8 years that I've talked to over yours.
The fact you say he's so easy to learn leads me to think you haven't really played him vs. good survivors yet, because good survivors they make your life very hard if you dont play close to perfect, and landing hits on Billy is certainly not as easy as you describe.
I will grant you, Hillbilly is very strong, and one of the best killers in the game... but:
- His power is highly telegraphed to Survivors
- He cannot adjust or correct his aim or recover if he misses, which makes him highly predictable and easy to bait/juke.
- Without his Overdrive Billy can't realistically try to land hits at a large number of tiles, due to his slow lumbering speed while charging and the raw time it takes to actually fire up a charge.
- With Overdrive he can land those hits he normally couldn't... but it is so unwieldy the above problems are all amplified.
Into killer? A couple hundred. I do mostly follow the bonus, but I have a special place in my heart for Ghostie, Freddy and non-Thana Legion. Gotta stab, and sometimes you just wanna do the murdering regardless of the bonus.
True, I'm not suggesting I've mastered Billy, I'm suggesting the "mechanical difficulties" were pretty easy to overcome. Skilled survivors should make a killer's life more difficult. The problem, though, is that Billy doesn't really have those difficulties because his chases end in a down, not an injury, and he gets to apply pressure across the map with zerodowntime.
- Telegraphing isn't a huge deal. Part of that is mindgaming. If Billy wins the mindgame, he wins the chase. If he loses the mindgame, he gets to rev and go again.
- Maybe I'm confused here, but most people on Billy have an ample hit box. A strong flick does allow them to re-orient and bring the chainsaw down at an angle. I know I've been hit sideways or around obstacles that ostensibly should have avoided the hit or had him bump. I generally give this to a mix of ping and the weird survivor hitbox pill thing that gives Huntress "curving" hatchets.
- The time to charge isn't that slow, so I'm kind of confused by this assertion. Especially if the Billy is intentionally charging/letting go to bait when his sprint fires. He should have difficulties at some loops. The problem is he doesn't seem to. Therein is my primary complaint.
- Overdrive felt unwieldy the first few times I tried it, but it didn't take terribly long to course correct with it.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844837#Comment_3844837
It does matter a lot in loops.
You would m1 because the survivor should be able to make it to a vault or pallet after you miss a sprint. Like the miss cooldown is 2.7 seconds and it takes 2.5 seconds to charge again. If a survivor cant make it to a vault or pallet in time then they are severely out positioned.You won't miss a sprint in open spaces, so it is kind of irrelevant. Most loops, you can either curve, or mindgame. Vaulting is fine, except for when you hit them through the vault anyways. A pallet is irrelevant for the previous mention - you break it faster and resume revving.
Most Billys I play against have forgone m1s all together, honestly. -
@OrangeBear said:
He's slow when charging your power so it can be a major hinderance if you aren't using it correctly. They increased the miss cooldown so you cant follow up with an m1 anymore.
He's not slow enough to matter, especially given the speed buff. You don't ever have to follow up with an m1, you just immediately start revving and go again. Why m1?