Skankle
Skankle
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- Skankle
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Yeah, Survivor experience is really really helpful when playing as Hag, as you can find unconventional trap placements that get great value. Take Rotten Fields for example, most people think this is one of Hag's weakest maps but as long as you have range addons I think it's pretty good. The nature of the vast open corn actually leads to quite predictable survivor movements - there's a few gens scattered throughout the corn and key landmarks/loops around the edges, and so 95% of the time survivors will move in straight lines between these. Place traps along these lines and you can surprise and get the leg up on even the best survivors, who will work to proactively disable traps in predictable locations.
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We'll Make It and Second Wind. It's not particularly exciting, but it's a strong combination for efficiency - get 2 heals for an 8s investment.
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Flashlights are really rough if the survivors using them are competent, but an average flashlight user is pretty easy to deal with - beyond using Franklin's Demise (which I recommend vs 2+ flashlights) you should try to place traps in more unexpected areas and pathways, not always under pallets windows hooks etc. This is crucial when facing very good survivors even without flashlights, as you have to surprise them and keep them on their toes because they will actively set out to disable your web.
I think like you said it should just take more resources - a basic flashlight with no add ons can still destroy a vast amount of traps. Either the action itself should take more time or it should take away a little chunk of the battery for every trap burned.
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My suspicion is that they did it because the injured walking animation might appear odd when moving 20% faster, and they didn't have the time to tweak the animation. It's a very odd, unnecessary caveat otherwise.
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Survivors have it in their hands to punish facecamping. I know that facecampers make for a boring game, either sitting on gens or on the hook, but it's ultimately boring for the killer too and punished by the ranking system - feed a camper enough boring games where 3 gens get done as they stare at the hooked survivor and then depip they'll either change their act or stop playing. If you want to see it less stop rewarding camping killers with easy wins.
Oh, and run Kindred.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1239056#Comment_1239056
Undetectable was added so that Killers would be more consistent with each other, why do you think the community had a fit when T1 Myers was changed to have Undetectable? Their reasoning was not because of Object of Obsession, their reasoning was because they wanted the Killers to function more consistently, especially Stealth Killers.
And about the perk giving the Survivor and presumably team a lot of information. So what? Again, it's not like they know exactly where you placed down your trap. Do you really expect SWF teams to completely understand what their teammate who has Object is saying?
People who play with friends aren't going to always play optimally, even if one is running Object. And those who are playing optimally can still be defeated if you ignore the person running Object and go for the obviously weaker targets. Object won't give the person who is running it perfectly clear cut information, so how would you be able to abuse it to tell the other survivor what the killer is doing? And even then, most people can tell if Hag is placing a trap and shutting down a loop. They'll most likely just run for the next one.
"She's placing a trap!"
"Yes I can see that!"
Of course Undetectable made stealth abilities consistent across the board, but immunity to aura reading was new to them all except T1 Myers. Players had kicked up a fuss about OoO vs the likes of Wraith and Ghostface for a while at that point. What does immunity to aura reading meaningfully do for stealth killers outside of dealing with Object? I don't think anyone had an issue with being revealed by Dark Sense. It's pretty clear what that change was targeted towards.
If the Object user is across the map they won't know exactly where a trap is placed, but at a moderate range with basic map knowledge you will pretty much know exactly where a trap has been placed. You'll know exactly where traps are if you follow the Hag around just outside of her TR.
The point is that you can't ignore an Object user as Hag, because otherwise they will disarm all your traps and completely neuter your power. An object user being able to communicate some of their information to teammates is just the cherry on top.
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@DelsKibara said:
Learn to play against Object, also most people who use Object aren't in a Four Man Death Squad.
I for one run Object in a Solo match because I want the killer to chase me specifically.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/780/MPUQPS9151FG.png
As for the perk making Hag & Trapper irrelevant, once again, learn to play against Object.
An Object of Obsession player who knows how to deal with Hag almost completely invalidates her. It's a near guaranteed loss because one competent player brought a perk - never mind if they're communicating the information they receive on comms. Of course an average OoO user is beatable as Hag, because most players still don't know how to properly deal with her, but if you face an OoO user who knows to follow you around the whole game disabling your traps (while being good enough to loop a 110 killer without a power, which isn't the highest bar) there's very little you can do about it. At best you can hope to lay a trap while they're within TR range without them knowing, which will hopefully surprise them at some point, or getting a hit with Dark Devotion to buy you some time to lay traps while they can't see you.
The perk itself is an issue and BHVR have danced around addressing the problem for a long time. The entire Undetectable status was introduced because OoO invalidated stealth killers - it's not like anyone thought Alert, Dark Sense or Kindred showing the auras of stealth killers was an issue. Undetectable hasn't solved the perk fundamentally supplying too much information to the survivor side and it needs changes.
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@finitethrills said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/139336/why-doesnt-for-the-people-charge-second-wind
For the people uses the active ability to instantly change the health state of one survivor. Second wind requires you to heal the equivalent of one health state. In other words, you have to channel that many heal charges. For the people works outside the healing mechanic, so it doesn't count as healing how many ever charges would be a health state.
Makes sense, thanks! I do wish they'd add a workaround so these perks work together nonetheless.
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Hag has some of the best add-ons in the game in terms of inventiveness and adding interesting quirks to her power. These are the only ones that could use a change imo:
Waterlogged Shoe - Traps would have to make survivors move like molasses for dropping teleport to be anywhere near worthwhile. This is probably the worst Ultra Rare in the game as it stands.
Granma's Heart - Just make it grant Undetectable for like 10s upon trap trigger.
Disfigured Ear - Kind of a meme add on like Scarred Hand, I'd just give it Blindness for 60s on trap trigger or something random to be extra annoying.
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It's crazy to me that they've jumped around the issues OoO brings for so long without changing the perk itself. They introduced the entire Undetectable status to counteract OoO neutering stealth killers, which at the same time hurt perks that no one thought was anywhere near an issue like Kindred, Dark Sense and Alert. It still completely stomps on the likes of Hag and Trapper and is obnoxiously powerful in a SWF context.
The perk needs a fundamental change.
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She's great but not the strongest. She's helped by the fact that most survivors don't know how to best deal with her - if you know where a trap is and you're not currently on a gen or unhooking, go pop it! If you walk up to it and run directly away the moment it's triggered you'll easily make it to a loop before the Hag can hit you, as she has a brief slowdown after teleporting. Try to keep an eye on where she is across the game to get a sense of where her traps generally are, as the Hag can't trap the entire map. This means if you get hit you can easily run to a dead zone in the map that her traps can't stretch to, and she'll have to risk committing to the chase to get a down.
If a team is proactive with disabling her web she really, really struggles, and this is why Object of Obsession is such a massive counter to her, especially with a flashlight because then there's 0 risk to disabling a trap.
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They say this is meant to be a perk that's strong at late game, but let's compare it to our other late game hex. Devour Hope lets you instadown and mori survivors with enough stacks, while only notifying survivors of its existence once you reach 3 stacks and hit a survivor. Ruin meanwhile makes all generators regress at double speed while not being worked on, while also notifying survivors of its existence the moment they stop working on any generator right at the start of the match. Do these seem like they both stack up as viable options? The effect of Ruin is strong but not strong enough for the risk of having an immediately apparent Hex that only does something later on in the game.
This feels like another Surge situation where it's only sorta worthwhile when run with Surveillance.