Crunc2h

@dspaceman20 No don't apologize. It is actually relevant to the original topic at hand and was one of the things i wanted to discuss.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 17, 2021

@tennmio -->We are not friends. Since you use this term anyway and in the following titled my discussion (unfortunately you did not bring any arguments) as "Shitshow" it makes it clear that you feel intimidated and disempowered by my arguments. Therefore you use this term to feel empowered by defaming me as you believe.

Shitshow was not directed at you. I meant the entire post and comments made. I expected this to get some heat, but not this much and not this quickly.I would like to answer people and share my opinions and get theirs but it is becoming more and more time straining.I should’ve made that more clear so that was my fault.

“I am apparently a sociopath and morally bankrupt for trying to have some fun”

-->This kind statement is an unfair variety and called "lead to absurdity through exaggeration". In doing so, the discussion partner tries to make you unbelievable and ridiculous by exaggerating your statement or the consequences. I reject your allegation.

“Pure egoism or sadism that cannot be excused or explained in any other way.”

These are your exact words regarding tunneling, so i don’t see how i am exaggerating here.

“With all due respect, given your (nonexistent) and my (well-researched) arguments, your statement should be mine.”

How nice of you to assume that only from arguments i made over a video game topic discussion knowing absolutely nothing about what i do in real life.

“I reject your allegation. I understand your expression and your frustration. They just seem very self-centered to me. You have formed your opinion and apparently believe you truly know that it is as you described it (even with the lack of arguments). That is understandable, because if you would allow my arguments to be valid, it would result in a cognitive dissonance and a threat to your self-worth. That's probably why you react with aggression and the attempt to defame me. If my explanations were nonsense, you wouldn’t need to worry and with your reasoning, you could continue to behave as you have done so far without having to question your morality. I don't blame you for trying to insult me. Everyone in your situation would defend their self-worth”

First of all insulting you was just poor judgement on my part.I apologize for that.I admit that i really don’t understand your perspective.I don’t see how can someone expect that a moral code formed by once a tight-net community must still be applicable even though game has evolved and the player base is more than 4 times larger. Failed attemts to ensure that this moral code is adhered by everyone is what causes most of the toxicity in my experience. You can’t expect everyone to follow it, that is simply unrealistic. And since that is the case players get more and more frustrated not because they get face camped,tunneled,t-bagged but because of the repeated assertion of how those things are evil,unspeakable and aren’t supposed to be done etc. Out of frustration they either quit playing or start doing those things themselves. And this causes a repeating circle of hatred between two sides. Other than a select few no one is following these rules anymore anyways. All that is really left is the expectation of it by survivors and the toxicity it causes.Even if what you have said was true, DBD has undoubtedly one of the most toxic communities out there.So how exactly these rules are working for you? Did they make the game more fair and fun?Don’t think so. Most people who quit this game –some of my friends also- quit because what these rules do to the game and the community.They obviously failed to make this community more a peaceful one.So yes i don’t see how abiding moral codes in a video game is a good idea. You are right about cognitive dissonance but that is simply not the case with me.

“Yes, I have a different opinion. We have different opinions and as you said that is ok. You are free continuing to believe that you can do whatever you want online and that it does not affect your moral integrity in any way. But you cannot ask that the rest of us share your opinion. For others, the severity of misconduct does not depend on whether you show it in a group during an online game or offline. It is a misconduct and that is how it is assessed, evaluated and treated. Even if you don’t like that.”

I don’t believe doing whatever online does not compromise my moral integrity.As you said i evaluate my “misconduct” by the effects it has on real life. If it is an action done to someone in a video game let’s just say face camping i use empathy to see how i would feel if i was in their position. Then compare it to how i would feel doing it and go from there.

Effects on real life for person in that position: Negligible(at least for most people)

How i would feel : Joyous

It is not “at their expense”. It is just their moment of frustration compared to my moment of feeling nice. And yes i do care more about how i feel more than how a total stranger feels. No need to be a hypocrite here. If that makes me selfish and self-centered let me be selfish. You can say “you can play in a way that is fun for everyone.” But fun is subjective and i don’t have fun playing by the rules. So why would i trade what i said above to me getting bored and total strangers having fun?Who would do that? Nobody. Because that is not why we are here to play.We are here to play so we can have some fun. We don’t play games to be clowns.So I would say my moral integrity is just fine here.

“Overall your statement amazes me. I assumed that you opened this post in the discussion forum to discuss. Precisely because we have different views, I think a discussion could be fruitful. Either side can present their arguments. That's what a discussion is about. Unfortunately you seem not appreciate a good high-quality discussion. I think it's a shame that you are withdrawing from it. For me the question remains if you are unable or unwilling to comment on my arguments”

Yes i wanted to discuss but i didn’t expect this amount of feedback as i said before. I do appreciate a high-quality discussion, it is just that i am becoming increasingly unavailable recently so i might not be able to comment back, that is why i was trying to end the discussion there.

PS: I edited it and it got deleted for some reason. So this might get posted 2 times.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 17, 2021

@JFF "If post-game chat is such a problematic thing for you to deal with, just close it, press continue button, no one is forcing you to chat with others, especially when you play the way you want.

My whole point is we're part of a community and if we want to function and maintain a healthy relationship between players, we have to reach a compromise, otherwise this will be a never ending cycle of hatred between two sides."

If i couldn't deal with the endgame chat i would've quit playing this game in the first 50 hours of killer. I said that so you would really understand what i was trying to say.

I would agree with you if said compromise wasn't the actual reason for the hatred between two sides. At least in my opinion. I think (and also felt) that being face camped and tunneled or being t-bagged aren't really what makes people feel so bad by themselves. I think that the perception that players absolutely cannot do those things and that those things are so bad,disgusting,toxic etc. is what makes them really angry. When i imagine the game and the community without these unwritten rules i really can't see why anyone would get so angry about such simple matters. It is never "You ######### up my game and i couldn't have any fun." It is always "You camping and tunneling son of a #########."

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 17, 2021

@JFF "Once again of course it is more likely to get a hate mail from survivor since there are 4 players, but you were referring to the level of toxicity however the LEVEL of toxicity is same on both sides. This doesn't mean killer players are generally nicer when it comes toxicity."

I already thought i explained this but lets go over it again. Say there is X amount of toxic players in the community regardless of which role they play. Out of 5 players in the trial 4 is survivor and 1 is killer. So one of the 4 survivors being toxic is 4 times more likely yes? I was trying to say this when i said "i get hate mail more than 4 times over" is that toxicity levels i see from survivors cannot be explained by their higher numbers. That exactly means that average killer is less toxic than average survivor. At least depending on my and all of my friends -who played the game for thousands of hours- and %80 of people who actually played killer in red ranks experiences. Don't even comment on this if you don't have that much experience in the game. Because most of this community knows this for a fact.

What i wanted you to get from FrenziedRoach's comment wasn't the "well uhmm just play better" execuse. It was that i am only responsible for my fun as a player. Not even a single multiplayer game -asymmetric or not- loads the responsibility of the fun had to a single player. DBD doesn't do that either, it is the community that is delusional. Survivors act like camping and tunneling are not a part of the game that was intended during the game design. I am not saying that survivors must be happy for getting face camped. I also think it can get frustrating. But they shouldn't act like killer is doing something they are not entitled to and lash out like i see in every 2-3 games in the endgame chat. That is not in anyway justified and way more toxic than whatever done in the game. Endgame chat is the most toxic part of this game by far. And those "unwritten rules" i was talking about? They cause survivors to think "Oh killer isnt supposed to do that what a trash, #########,bastard bla bla bla." Now THAT is toxic. Since this kind of perception of the game people have can't be undone, best thing devs can do for toxicity is just to remove the ######### endgame chat. I get kill threats every 4-5 games man, it is just insane and is like nothing i have ever seen in a video game before.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 16, 2021

@JFF I still get hate mails more than 4 times over when playing killer compared to playing survivor. We all know basic statistics don't worry, it is just more than the numbers expected. If you are denying that, you never played killer or you are insanely lucky.

Regarding other points please read @FrenziedRoach 's comment.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 16, 2021

@FrenziedRoach i know i just wanted to answer general arguments made against camping and tunneling. Doesn't really matter though because i know no one gives a ######### about it and community won't change at all. Wanted my opinions to be out there.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 16, 2021

@jaredlxxiii its just my take on some things. Nothing official.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 16, 2021

@tennmio Okay my friend, i am apparently a sociopath and morally bankrupt for trying to have some fun. Regardless i don't have any time or energy to maintain this shitshow. Since we don't really understand each others perspective regarding this issue, let's leave it here. That is your opinion, i don't agree with it and that is fine.

in Ridiculous Unwritten Rules of DBD Comment by Crunc2h February 16, 2021

@jester20k Look, i am also a rank 1 survivor. There were a lot of times where i got face camped first hook or i got tunneled entire game 4 times in a row. And it was indeed quite frustrating. But never once i typed any hate mail after the game. Never. I just went to the next game.Because i understand what other side is trying to do. Nobody deserves to hear the ######### i hear when playing killer almost every game over what i did in the trial. People can be emotionally unstable but that doesn't give them the right to attack the other side because they didn't play the way they wanted them to. Which is the reason why i wrote this post. Nothing done in the game is actually toxic it is the people that make it a big deal. And that is a problem they need to face. There is nothing i can do about that. You can be a nice killer farming with the survivors and that is just fine. But you can't tell me i am a jerk and a bully because i played the game the way that is most fun to me while not caring much about the feelings of total strangers. This is a game in which someone wins and someone loses. And there is no real consequences. That is all there is to it and if someone can't understand that as i said there is nothing i can do about that other than feeling sorry for them.