CodesterKing
CodesterKing
About
- Username
- CodesterKing
- Joined
- Visits
- 89
- Last Active
Comments
-
@crogers271 said:
Thoughts
RPD - Yes, this is currently extremely lopsided if the killers have any sort of organization. I think they could do a lot to rework the map by giving more paths from east to west and more gens outside, but it certainly needs changes.
Gen regression - It does feel very fast, as a survivor sometimes can be shocking if you run away for a moment and come back and see how much progress is lost. I'll have my own post on this, but I think the gen regression speed should be tied to the catch up mechanic and the rate should drop substantially as survivors are eliminated.
High Mobility Killers - They are definitely very strong. This has been proposed for 1v4 before, but I think certain kickers having weaker/stronger gen regression would help with this. I'll also add that a speedy killer takes away the down side of the two killers teaming up, giving up a lot of pressure on the rest of the map, because the fast killer can get to the other side so quickly.
Finding the Hook Spawn - It's an issue because the the strongest killer strat is still tunneling and with two killers even if one survivors manages to use their elusive to escape, well plenty of other survivors to become the target.
Trapper - I know that this is a common suggestion, but I feel like if there is no middle ground better to just remove him and call it a day. All traps and trapper just sets up a fort right at the start. We've been down that road before with other killers in 1v4 and know how the community responds.
Anti-camp - Agree that it should still apply with survivors close by. Unlike 2v8 were the anti-camp allows a free unhook, here the hook just gets moved.
Escapist / Torchbearer nerfs - being I think these are the weakest classes in a team game, seems unreasonable to nerf them. Killers can just ignore escapists until others are eliminated and the torchbearer endurance buff is pretty helpful to make killers consider what they are going to do.
We would get an alarming amount of players that simply don't understand that killers have basekit gen kick aura reading in the mode,I had this happen a lot as well and yeah, its concerning. Like there's an icon on your screen + general game knowledge, why are you hiding in that bush?
Out of the 250 games, we only had 3 that we considered close, and only 1 where all gens were completed before the wincon.I appreciate the thoughts but I'm curious, and I think about this for survivors on winstreaks, but how did the two of you not go mad with boredom?
Regarding regression, that'd be a dream come true and ideal scenario to have killer-specific regression numbers. The Krasue PTB where those changes were proposed was overall a mess, but it had great ideas and the regression specifically could translate well to 2v8 for sure. Maybe fast killers who excel at kicking gens in mass (Wraith, Blight, Spirit, etc.) could have a weaker form of the gen kick regression to encourage more chasing. Your idea of regression being tied to the catch up is good, would ultimately depend on numbers but it'd help in those bad survivor games where a couple people die early, making catching up on the killers regression much harder.
I disagree on trapper, and I say this as someone who dislikes going against him in the mode. I think his role in 2v8 has a really cool spin on his existing 1v4 power, making him act as a more supporting role where the other killer can help alleviate his poor early game and assist in corralling survivors into traps. I think in the mode where Wesker + Drac have three dashes, Nurse, Spirit and Blight have a grocery store list of buffs, allowing trapper to start with all of his traps is the least you could do, and he'd still be relatively weak that I don't think he'd be much of a problem either.
My issue with torchbearer endurance is that it lasts for so long and forces the killer into a lose-lose position specifically in endgame. Me n my duo played easily over 95% of our survivor games as torchbearer and we generally think the class is balanced coming from our experience. Having bangs + beam, as well as seeing nearby chases via aura reading made the class pretty versatile at saving people as long as you gave yourself time to position for them. I agree with the sentiment that it doesn't need a straight nerf however. Maybe as a sidegrade idea, you could give the class a distortion-like effect where the fresh hook aura reading when a generator pops doesn't apply to them, and you could earn stacks of this by bang + beam saving people to reward use of the class. I had experience playing in big survivor groups in 2v8 (like 6-8 people) and we would often 99% gens so one of us could hover for a save. This is crazy for the average 2v8 survivor to realize and actively do as it's hard to know if someone is hovering or not, there were a lot of times where it straight up killed us because we were caught edgemap with our pants down from the aura reading lololol.
Escapist I heavily disagree. I think its one of, if not the strongest class in 2v8 that can definitely be used altruistically. I've dodged a lot of hits from a nearby escapist user using power, and it can help in a pinch during endgame or scenarios where someone is being tunnelled. Additionally, being able to activate the speed boost on a button press feels very uninteractive from the killer's end, as you can manually correct your mistake in chase, which makes mindgaming or making a play with your power as killer feel redundant against the class. Against good players using this class you can't ignore them either, as it allows the survivor to pressure an unsafe generator and easily escape into a good position if the killer shows up. The earlier iterations of 2v8 where the speed worked more like sprint burst in 1v4 was much healthier and was still pretty strong while having the benefits of the speed applying to your teammates as well.
That's exactly why we started randomizing the killers we got, we started getting bored lol. Plus 2v8 killer is extremely fun to play with a homie, so much crazy and goofy stuff happens in the mode regardless of how sweaty the game is.
Thank you for commenting! -
@Saiph said:
Great post, I agree with everything OP said. Specifically what the post explains well is that, a lot of things are frustrating for the survivors BUT also not very interesting for the killer either, rather, it feels more like cheap wins when it happens. To improve queue times, these should be the priority to address, as they will reduce survivor frustration a lot while not making killer less fun to play as.
In my opinion:
- Hook timers should be increased: it is REALLY infuriating to go stage 2 in this mode. And unlike 1v4 where survivors can control it, in 2v8 happens just because of bad hook spawn RNG / lack of communication.
ㅤ - Indoor maps are not fun for either side (specifically Lery's and RPD). Survivors constantly run into killers because of the lack of visibility, and block each other in corridors not designed for so many people. On the killer side, indoor maps shut down too many killer powers, to name a few: Blight, Billy (unplayable), Oni, Huntress, Deathslinger. I don't really see a solution without major rework, indoor maps are simply not fit for 2v8 imo and it is even more exacerbated by the fact they spawn way too frequently compared to other maps.
ㅤ - Zombies need a massive nerf. Nemesis strength should get transferred from the zombie RNG to his main power, as he's currently one of the LEAST fun to play as and against. Zombies are uninteractive for survivors, and can be an auto-win purely depending on RNG. I've had several games on RPD where zombies got 10+ hits in a single match, didn't feel particularly rewarding when I was the killer, wanted to smash my screen when I was survivor. I'd bet Nemesis killrate is through the roof on RPD specifically. Zombies need to get reduced back to 2-3 and ideally changed in a way that gives more interesting counterplay than just leaving the loop/gen/hook.
You make a great point about hooks, me n my duo played a lottt of survivor games during our queues and getting left to 2nd is unfortunately both annoying and common. Due to the gamemode's chaotic nature, most people aren't paying a whole lot of attention to the hud or general tells that someone should go for the unhook. I also found that while playing killer, intercepting people who WERE trying to save very easy, both because maps are very open and people don't usually stealth for unhooks in 2v8. Intercepting only ONE person was often more than enough to bring them to 2nd stage, as there wasn't another person rotating that was nearby. Having a higher hook timer would definitely help this issue, maybe a basekit kindred-like effect when someone is caged too? That could be sick.
100% agreed on RPD, that map needs a major rework that would take too much effort from BHVR's end to fix.
I think my friend and I agree that we feel more or less indifferent about lery's though. On one hand, it does make using ranged and dash killers very difficult/unfun, but shadow was a saving grace as it allowed killers like billy and oni to get really free downs on that map. We also might have bias because we've had very fun and memorable games/moments on that map, although I likely wouldn't miss it too much if it were removed in 2v8.
Yessss exactly about nemmy, there's soooo many ways you could buff his whip in 2v8. Mentioned in the post are the likely easier ideas to implement (whip and pallet break recovery + marvin's blood) but you could get creative with him if you wanted. What if there was a tier 4 that was difficult to reach, that extended the whip range even FURTHER and could maybe injure directly? A 3rd hit killer is a little awkward in 2v8 at times, its food for thought.
Actually why don't we just give him a rocket launc- - Hook timers should be increased: it is REALLY infuriating to go stage 2 in this mode. And unlike 1v4 where survivors can control it, in 2v8 happens just because of bad hook spawn RNG / lack of communication.
-
@ThatRyanB said:
This is such a hugely detailed post! Thank you so much for taking the time to not only track your stats, but also break out so many thoughtful pieces of feedback (extra points for giving so much attention to both roles)!
Our team is actually in the process of sharing feedback on this round of 2v8 with the team right now, so I'll be sure to pass on your points!
Given Xeno is the newest addition to 2v8, though, I did want to see if you had any additional thoughts. Are there any other things that stood out about Xeno through 2v8?
Thank you so much for commenting! I was the dude playing the majority of the Xeno games so I'm happy to answer!
One awkward aspect about the tail is the collision it has with your teammate. There's times where I'm trying to hit over my teammate while timing it with their attack, but unless we're on opposing angles on the survivor the killer hitbox is difficult to avoid. Dracula's hellfire, or Huntress' hatchet on the other hand, completely bypasses the killer hitbox and feel very fluid to use.
My friend suggested there should be a movement speed buff for survivors when carrying a turret. With 2v8 being such a fast paced mode, taking time to place down a prop for only of the two killers is a big commitment. Perhaps as compensation, Xeno could get Lambert's Starmap basekit? (reduces turret range by 2 meters) It made turrets feel somewhat overwhelming at times and seems like a must-have in 1v4.
Thanks again!! -
All the time. Even though I main Unknown and Vecna, ive been absolutely loving the changes they're doing to some of the weaker killers. I've also been playing a lot of dredge, same with knight and nemmy due to the updates. Hard killers like Singularity and Billy also got buffed, so they feel a lot less punishing to play now, so I'm enjoying them more because of it. Definitely love the direction devs are going with these killer updates, I really hope they keep it up.
Unrelated to recent buffs, spirit and pinhead have also been really fun for me lately. And oddly enough… clown? I always found clown to be meh to play, but I decided to try him for a couple games again and had a lot of fun, surprisingly. -
After a good amount of matches, I can't agree more. This mode is like normal DBD minus the downtime of hooking and finding people. Constant chases and the immense amount of options during a match make games super intense and fun.
Another aspect worth mentioning is the removal of hook notifications. You can't easily tunnel a dude out anymore, plus it gives survivors opportunities to reset during the match.
Loving this gamemode and I'll struggle getting back to 1v4 lol -
Very balanced map and is my favourite out of the autohaven realm.
The generator spread is good, the loops are balanced and feel fair to both sides, the rng is mostly stable regarding pallet spawns, but theres one small problem.
This map can be a little unforgiving against certain killers good at protecting the basement (Bubba, trickster, huntress, etc.) due to how accessible it is. Less of a problem regarding the map itself but it might be worth noting.
Not really sure how you'd fix that last part, or bother at all. Feel like its more of a problem with those killers rather than the map. Not much else to say, fantastic map.
-
This map is great, definitely one of my favourities out of the macmillan realm.
Although it can be a little rough for low mobility killers due to the size. I think trimming it down a little would help those killers create pressure.
One particular window by the main building in the tent area is also a little too long. It's fine as is, but a breakable wall would be a really smart decision here.
Overall, good map. Not much else to say.
-
A map with too many line of sight breakers and too many pallets, albeit unsafe pallets, makes this a balanced map, but in the worst way possible.
Stealth killers have too much of an edge on this map, with a lot of the generators being very easy to approach without being seen. Theres just too many walls and unsafe generators, overall making it a little too oppressive for stealth killers.
These multiple walls and common unsafe pallets also make a lot of killer powers barely usable. Wesker, huntress, blight, singularity, Oni, Bubba, amongst MANY others feel terrible to play on due to a lot of the map having too many walls to effectively use movement abilities (Wesker Blight, Oni) or have unsafe pallets, when predropped, can outright deny power usage (Huntress, Bubba, Deathslinger).
The top floor is also pretty awful for survivor. There's pallets and windows up there, but they lead to unfavourable positions on the survivor side, so theres no real reason to use them unless its a last ditch effort which doesn't feel good.
Remove a bunch of the walls to both weaken stealth killers, while also incentivising chase killers to use their power, overhaul the second floor and it could be a much better map. In it's current state, its probably one of my least favourite indoor maps.
-
Amazing map with very interactive loops, super fun and balanced to play on for both roles. It's also a pretty small map which is great for low mobility killers. However, it has a couple of glaring flaws.
One, theres a three gen that can be extremely favoured towards the killer in the gallows area by shack. It can feel impossible to get anything done there if the killer decides to protect those three. Not only are they close together, but the loops there also pretty killer sided. Add stronger loops there and split up the gens a bit, and it'll fix the problem.
Two, main building. For strong chase killers such as wesker, huntress, chucky, etc. this place isn't a problem. However it IS a problem for m1 killers due to the strong setups it can have. The three windows can be pretty oppressive and aren't very hard to loop. Additionally, theres a section on the top floor with a bunch of breakable walls that don't serve much of a purpose. If a survivor vaults there, its a deadend. There's no incentive to interact with that section at all for either side.
So, heres an idea. Make that area a bit more accessible by removing the breakable walls there, and then add a breakable wall on one of the walls facing the corner of the map, right above the wooden pathway and next to the two staircases.
This way, the oppressive window on the top floor isn't as good, as the killer could take a different path to cut them off. It could keep survivors on their toes and generally make the building a lot more fair for killers lacking a chase power.
Apart from those two issues, great map.
-
Good map, although main building (specifically the second floor) is a bit of a problem.
Certain builds including boil over can be super oppressive against the right killers, so adding a hook or two up there may solve the issue. It's also really easy to prerun towards it as a survivor, wasting a ton of time for the killer to actually chase them.
To fix this, I'd say shorten the stairway and path, OR
Add a possible generator spawn on the upstairs floor that can replace the one on the first. This way, killers have more of a purpose and incentive to actually go up there instead of it feeling like a giant waste of time.
Apart from that, amazing map.
-
Love this rework. Feels pretty fair to both sides with a couple of small issues.
First off, the 3 gen spawns can be rough at times. Specifically the main building + the generators in the jungle gym tile and corn is a pretty oppressive one.
Certain loop spawns near shack can be rough. If a loop spawns right next to it, it's still pretty easy to chain both together and makes it a bit of a nightmare for m1 killers.
Great map.
-
Very balanced map and easily one of my favourites with little issues.
Main building is very well designed and has one of my favourite layouts. The good pallets inside are somewhat hard to reach too, making it feel pretty fair for both sides.
People are saying the map has too many deadzones/is too big, and I can sort of agree. I think the jungle gym tiles, specifically the ones in the corner, are a little too close to the edge and could probably be brought closer to the middle. To compensate, trim the edges and maybe remove a couple of the filler pallets.
Overall, cool aesthetic, fun and mostly balanced gameplay for both sides.
-
This map is kinda balanced, more so favouring the survivors due to a couple of reasons.
Main building is a little bit too strong, specifically the window can be looped in multiple different directions. The breakable wall don't really do much for the killer in terms of weakening the loop, and can even be a bad move depending if the generator inside was done or not.
Map is a little too big, so it's difficult for low mobility killers to get around and pressure generators.
Also the map has too much line of sight. This makes certain killers such as trickster and huntress a little oppressive, and makes stealth killers such as ghostface or wraith have trouble sneaking up. Maybe adding a couple of the car walls that are usually near the edges to the middle would help solve this issue.
Apart from these complaints, great map.
-
Least favourite autohaven map, entirely due to the layout.
It's hourglass-like shape means that a killer can choose to protect one section of the map, often having 3-4 generators on it. This makes it very easy for the killer to patrol those 3-4 generators and easily win the game. The map is actually quite fun as survivor when the killer doesn't go for this patrol strategy, but it's objectively worse to do this in terms of getting kills.
The actual loops themselves are fine, but it's layout is problematic and leads to matches heavily swayed to the killers side.
-
Grim pantry is a fun and somewhat balanced map, leaning more towards survivors. It suffers from a lot of the same issues as Pale Rose, but definitely isn't one of the worst maps out there.
Much like Pale Rose, map rng can feel volatile at times, specifically in the outer edges of the map. Generators can spawn a little too close to one another, creating pretty rough three gen scenarios. Certain loops such as the log loop (the one that spawns on the outer edge with the window) are a little too strong unless you have a chase power and could be shortened down a bit. They can also be very powerful depending on how close it spawns to another structure.
Conversely, the log loop may not spawn at all, and you'll be left with a lot of open space with a generator in a very unsafe area, making it greatly advantageous for the killer at times. These factors make the map feel very oppressive as survivor, but also unfair as killer depending on the rng on the outer edges.
Additionally the pier and main building are a little too survivor sided. They have very strong resources available and could likely be tweaked a little to make it feel a bit more fair for killers without a chase power. The side of the main building facing the edge of the map lacks a lot of loops and generators. To fix it, maybe it could be a little smaller and brought closer to the middle of the map to make it feel less of a deadzone if a survivor is caught there.
Because Grim Pantry uses the same props from Pale Rose, they both suffer from the same issue; weird collision. Specifically the trees and trunks have a thin hitbox for their collision, so killers like blight can struggle to bounce off of them.
Shortening/removing the outer edges could help this map's rng generation (and maybe to compensate, make the map a tiny bit bigger?)
Overall, a good map with a lot of potential, but is really held back by it's volatile nature through rng as well as the structures (primarily pier and main building.)
-
Pale rose I feel is a pretty balanced map. It features one of my favourite main buildings and feels pretty fun for both sides at times, but it has a couple of issues.
I feel like it's core issues lie in killer prop placements as well as some certain generator/loop spawns. They can feel a little too volatile at times, spawning at the edge of the map or nothing spawning at all. This spawning logic can create very good three gens for the killer or can create vast deadzones depending on the rng.
For example, pig traps can spawn really far away from each other, and if you get unlucky as well as the pig interrupting you now and then, it can feel like a guaranteed death at times.
The log loop (the one with the window that spawns at the edges of the map) is a little too strong and could be shortened a little. Unless you have a chase power to deal with it, the loop is pretty strong against certain killers.
This is a small complaint but a complaint nonetheless, the trees and some of the objects have some wonky collision. So killers like blight can struggle using their power due to the hitboxes being a little inconsistent.
Overall, I'd say remove/shorten the outer edges of the map, (maybe make the map a bit bigger to compensate?) tweak a couple of loops, make the rng and collision of objects and loops feel a little consistent, and I think the Pale Rose will be in a very good spot.