zanark
zanark
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2403325#Comment_2403325
It has nothing to do with latency. This video proves it has nothing to do with latency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ4fUJrYirA
It seems like the game checks if the pallet is 50% down. If yes, reject hit, if no hit the survivor. Its going be new tech that survivor abuse to get free health states. If they wanted buff smack hit exhaustion perk, they could just make it so that pallets that are thrown by smack hit apply the stun Immediately.
Except... This video doesn't prove anything to the current discution, and I repeat, it all has to do with killer's latency, I have explained well enough in my post. I also explained the pallet stun you talk about, it's good you remember the 50% information but it seems you wipe out on purpose the fact that the 50% pallet drop has to happen ON THE SERVER (and not on any player screens, whether they play killer or survivor), therefore the more latency the killer has, the later he will see the stun on his screen and the longer it has happened on the server already (and the earlier he will have to hit to not have his hit rejected). If you don't understand such basic netcode, don't spread out misinformation at least, thanks.
I've had many exact same hits as killer (and even hits 1frame later) playing w/ ~50ms latency since the update and those have hit survivors. Those hits were not rejected. About 80 games in as killer since the update, only 5 hits were rejected that I was totally fine with.
My issues playing killers are elsewhere, current pallet stuns are fine.
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@D3spair said:
This is a video of me getting rob of my Hits 2 times because Felix had 88ms vs me as a Killer with 50ms.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C5QBAAA5Q9DA/image.png
I can clearly accept the chainsaw being invalidated but Cmon! My M1 hit first!
I had 50ms on the lobby screen and when I checked the Felix's ping he was 88ms. I thought the one with better ping would win but this... in my case just look favorable to survivors.
I've just analyzed your video frame by frame at 60fps, and I can say for sure, you didn't have 50ms latency in both instances.
Keep in mind that your latency in the lobby is usually lower than your latency in-game, you can try a game as a survivor and check multiple times this way, you'll see. Also, latency fluctuates all the time but is more stable with a wired connection, it can help if you're using wifi.
Playing at ~50ms myself (I have 39-42ms in lobby), I got hits that were correctly registered and weren't rejected where the survivor dropped the pallet even earlier than what we see in this clip. I rarely see any of my hits rejected.
Old pallets hit validation was Killer-sided, new pallets hit validation is server-sided (not killer-sided, not survivor-sided). It is the most fair system and has to stay. Also, for the further analysys: A pallet drop doesn't stun instantly, after checking multiple clips, it seems to stun about 5 frames (which is equal to ~0.083s or ~83ms) after the animation start (survivor having his arms on the pallet).
The interesting part, the clip analysis:
Chainsaw Hit @ frame 341 (~5.683s in the video)
Pallet animation start @ frame 341 (~5.683s)
Pallet stun @ frame 346 (~5.767s)
Pallet stun happens 83ms after the Hit on Killer's POV, so in this instance: If Killer < 83ms = hit registered while if Killer > 83ms = hit rejected
then:
M1 hit @ frame 2262 (~37.700s)
Pallet animation start @ frame 2263 (~37.717s)
Pallet stun @ frame 2268 (~37.800s)
Pallet stun happens 100ms after the hit on Killer's POV, so in this instance: If Killer < 100ms = hit registered while if Killer > 100ms = hit rejected.
As a conclusion, as seen in the clip, the server received the stun before the hit in both actions, which means you had >83ms on the first hit and >100ms on the 2nd hit, and rejected both hits as intended (the server does it's job correctly). It's as simple as that. You were not robbed of any hit. The false Blood VFX animation from Killer's POV is indeed annoying and I hope they will be able to do something about it, but the new pallet hit validation is fair and has to stay or we'll see people abuse their connections forever. I really hope vaults are coming next.
I play both sides but I'm also a Killer main (70%+ of my games) so I understand it can be frustrating sometimes, and for balancing issues and having it more bearable, maybe the devs could make it so the pallet is stunning the killer 1 frame (17ms) later than right now, so the killer has 1 more frame to have his hit validated before being rejected but all of this really has to stay server-side for fairness for both sides. I also feel that adding servers (especially for eastern europe/middle east but also other regions that can't have a decent enough latency because are too far to the current servers) now that the game has a lot more players and crossplay would make the experience just way better for everyone.
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Vaults, just as pallets, seem to be broken in the sense that the hit detection is coded client-side, which means killer-sided as he is the one hitting.
Now that the devs added servers, the problem became even bigger because of this.
Just an exemple: Before when the killer was host (he was the server) :
Survivors had a certain latency to the killer, let's say a decent one 80ms. It meant that all of survivor's action (which include vaulting, dropping pallets,...) were registered 80ms later on killer's screen, meaning he can hit you in that time-frame. And if he does and the hit barely connects on his screen, it will register, whereas on survivor's screen it cleary didn't connect. And it was with good ping exemple, the more latency the survivors had to the killer (whether it's just distance, survivor connection or killer connection), the more unfair it was for them.
Now with current dedicated servers: when I connect to the closest server, I always have 70ms stable latency. Let's say the killer has around 80ms latency, my position and my actions are registered on the dedicated servers in 70ms, and these informations are sent to the killer 80ms later, which means he receives all my actions 150ms after I actually do these, 150ms where he can hit me freely if he's close and we're going for a vault or a pallet drop. This is two time worse than what it was with killer hosting. And same here, the more the latency one or both party have, the more killer is rewarded and the survivor is punished for this, just as it was with killers hosting but to an other extent as both latencies are stacked together in killer's favor this time. Also lagswitching, even though very rare and happening way less often than what people claim, is still possible because of all this.
The only solution is indeed dedicated servers but with server-side hit detection, and I hope they will implement it soon enough. Whether they decide to do the whole swing animation server-side (as in F13th), or let the swing animation client-side but still do the hit-detection server-side, it will be perfect.
Current situation:
-if both killer and survivor connection are good, it is mostly decent experience for everyone, not a lot of unfairness, just a bit on the survivor side (although with current servers and stacked latencies, survivors are facing way more unfairness).
-If survivor has a poor connection, he's punished for it and it's OK. I don't think it's unfair.
-If the killer has a poor connection, the survivor is also punished for it and it is extremely unfair for him.
Situation with with server-side hit detection:
-if both have good connection, it is the best experience, no unfairness at all, latency is always a thing so some hits that may look like hits on killer screen won't register, some hits that don't connect on survivor screen will register, but usually fair for everyone, and especially, it is no side favored.
-survivor bad connection = survivor punished with far away hits.
-killer bad connection = killer punished with hits that don't register.
-most lagswitch usage not possible anymore.
That's why the server-side hit detection is the best solution. It is way more fair and should be the way to go. I understand it won't be easy to implement, and also that it will be a buff to survivors, so some balance may be needed when it's in place to make the experience balanced for everyone.
As of now, I can only tell people to never try for a medium vault, especially with current servers, bait it but never vault it, you will always get hit otherwise.