wechselkind
wechselkind
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989673#Comment_3989673
The first thing that came to my mind was a 3-stack deliberately leaning their rando to die on hook to trigger this affect separate from anything the Killer does.
Having it as a permanent effect is too much for sure. A temporary one may be better, short if removing it entirely.
I think if someone is left on hook then it shouldn't count granted the killer is actively away from the hook and chasing other survivors and not camping. Genuinely, 3 man SWFs are already tough to go against, now we gotta get an insta loss just cause they wanna abuse mechanics.
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@Jarky said:
I know a lot of killer mains are gonna hate this because it's been how the gameplay has been for 9 years now, but this is a healthy direction for the game.
Removing unenjoyable uninteractive and frustrating gameplay and encouraging healthier playstyles for both sides is ABSOLUTELY the direction they should be taking DBD. If this results in killers needing basekit buffs to their kits, or more buffs to encourage the anti-tunnel/anti-slug playstyles then so be it, do it. The game shouldn't remain with frustrating elements just because they've always existed.
And no, just use (x) perk is not the answer. Fixing gameplay issues with perk design has always been a negative of DBD imo (and yes, I also have that opinion for the killer side).
Problem is, they are throwing this out as a blanket solution when there are lots of nuances that they aren't considering. Getting punished for a kill in under 6 hooks sounds like a good idea, but if you hook surv a, then surv b, surv a, surv c, and then surv a, you are getting punished as the killer for playing the game completely normally. They should make it so you can't 3 hook the same person in a direct row since that is what tunneling is.
These changes punish killers for wanting to win the game. The slugging mechanic introduced actually does sound like a good idea, but unlimited unbreakable with tenacity will be frustrating when you have to leave someone slugged cause 2 other survivors are crowding you for a save. These changes are literally punishing killers for taking advantage of survivor mistakes. Most of the time, survivors say they are getting tunneled when they are actually being ultra altruistic and making mistakes right in the killers face. These changes quite literally force the killer into ignoring their mistakes. What PVP game rewards the players making mistakes? It's not done smart in the slightest and the PTB is gonna show exactly how awful these changes will be in practice. This entire update shows the devs don't actually play their own game cause the 7 perks they are giving survivors with all the base kit is ridiculous. The hand holding genuinely makes this game so awful to play as both killer and survivor. IDK about you, but I'd actually like to get good at the game and have a challenge when I play, rather than getting 5 second chances, punishing the killer for outplaying me, punishing the killer when i'm making obvious mistakes, and basically handing me the win without much effort.
And for context before anyone spouts off that I'm a killer main, I play survivor 80-85% of the time and rarely play killer simply because of cue times. I get tunneled out of the game often since I play Orela and I really dislike it. I'm also not foolish enough to believe that changes like these make the game fair in any capacity and can recognize that these will make this game incredibly survivor sided.
I recommend the devs rethink these changes and I hope the communities and content creators response to this update will show the devs exactly how awful these changes will be. I am also gonna make some recommendations but I doubt the devs will read this.
Instead of making the anti-slug mechanic unlimited unbreakable with tenacity, it should be conditional in some way. I think if other survivors are near the downed person then the bar should stop and no progress can be made. This means the other survivors can't threaten pallet or flashlight saves and waste time until the downed survivor gets unbreakable and can run away. I also don't think tenacity should even be involved or added. I also don't think it should kick in until the survivor has been downed for a certain amount of time, other survivors are downed in which maybe the timer goes faster for all survivors and gets quicker for each one that is slugged at the same time, or the person is on their second hook state.
For the anti-tunneling mechanic, I don't think it should be a kill in under 6 hooks. Instead a kill in under 3-4 hooks since that would mean heavy tunneling which is what the actual problem is. This way, survivors mistakes actually matter and the killer isn't punished for taking advantage of those mistakes. I also think that they should implement a mechanic where if the survivor who has just been unhooked enters chase with the killer inside those 10 seconds of endurance, they get a longer amount of endurance. And if that survivor is hit inside that timeframe then the survivor gains 2-3% haste for a couple seconds and the killer is briefly stunned. This eliminates the killer immediately going after the unhook and tunneling out a kill whilst also making chasing that survivor and waiting out the endurance much riskier since too much time will have past and gens are likely to pop due to a poorly chosen chase.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990449#Comment_3990449
The cause of tunneling and slugging is that it's currently the most efficient way to win as killer and people want to win.
That's it.
If you think killers would suddenly all play super nice if the survivors got nerfs to the areas you're suggesting, and wouldn't just continue to play exactly the same way except it would be even easier for them now, you're kidding yourself. The game shouldn't be balanced around how nice the killer player is feeling.
They have a good idea in making tunneling less efficient while giving the killer bonuses for not tunneling. That's how you get killers to stop tunneling, make it less of the obviously correct play.
Furthermore, you can't nerf SWF. Punishing people for playing with their friends is the most asinine suggestion that I can't believe continues to have traction in this community.
I don't think you are recognizing how these changes are inherently going to ruin the game for killer player. For context, I play mostly survivor and I'm an Orela so I get tunneled out of games often. I still don't think these changes are smart in the slightest, especially considering how these effect any strategy the killer might have.
Firstly, what if the killer is going against a 3 man SWF and 1 solo queue? I promise you, as soon as that solo queue is hooked the SWF will let them die to get the benefits from an early kill and benefit from sacrificing a player to get an easy win. Lots of SWFs in this game so this is definitely going to occur often.
Secondly, why are killers being punished for going after the weak link on the team? Is it not smart to go after the guy that can't loop at all and never looks behind him, instead of the guy that has 1.5k hours and is an incredible looper? If the killer hooks the weak survivor, these changes essentially want the killer to then ignore that survivor regardless of any mistakes they might make and instead go for the stronger survivor and likely lose the game. If a survivor is making lots of big mistakes, why is the killer not able to capitalize off of it? Sure it's annoying that your teammates are making dumb moves, but survivors are able to capitalize off of killers mistakes so why not vice versa?
Third, what happens when 2 survivors are incredibly good or very sneaky / good at LOS plays? If you can only find the same two survivors and they are easy to catch and kill, even going back and forth you are getting a kill before the 6 hooks stated and granting huge buffs to the other survivors. Even playing fair and going after 50% of the lobby the killer will be penalized. If 2 survivors are making obvious mistakes and are the weak links on the team, why is the killer then not able to take advantage of that fake? Good survivors take advantage of weak killers, so why can good killers not take advantage of weak survivors?
It doesn't seem like the devs, or really anyone in agreement with these changes, is taking into account how this affects killer game play. What strategies do you suppose killers will be able to use to now try and win? They can't leave 1 person slugged to chase someone nearby since they are giving base kit unbreakable, they can't target the weak link of the team or else they are giving survivors buffs, they can't go after the same 2 people since they now aren't allowed to hook the same person 2 times in a row and even then the 5th hook would be a kill which is before the 6 hook states the game wants so the killer still gets penalized. With these changes, in order to win a match the killer needs to play perfectly and ignore any mistakes that the survivors make while also remembering hook states for each survivor and getting 6 hooks before getting a kill.
I do think that tunneling, slugging, and camping are things that can be tactfully handled and should be to make the game fun for the survivors, however I do not think these changes are very well thought out and they will hurt the game more than they will improve the experience for the players.