manutheserg
manutheserg
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@Draxlore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222992#Comment_3222992
So ignore my post which was to help you or others in understanding what can be done and just attempt to make me out to be a villain still.
You wonder why people just say "get better" or "increase your player skill" and leave it at that? Your response is exactly why.
They don't do it to be nasty. They do it because the people complaining don't want help. They just want to feel like a victim and blame others because they suck and it's too much effort to actually get better.
I gave you arguments for several points you made in your post and you read the first line of my post and deemed it as not worthy of reading. I gave you situations to show you things aren't always black and white which is why it isn't fair to say it's a skill issue. What you presented to me was things that happen in an ideal game with working, proper MMR which this doesn't have, or playing SWF, which not everyone does. I say it's nasty because not everyones FIRST instinct on this topic should be "Oh it's a skill issue for sure", because most of the time you get put in a situation that doesn't even care about your skill to begin with.
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@Draxlore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222573#Comment_3222573
Lets start off by saying its unappreciated that you automatically assume I am being nasty.
This game involves a lot of skills, and decision making. Countering Tunneling can be done by use of perks and items, teamwork if your team is playing well together, or by actual skill in the chase.
You've already seem to understand some of the perks you can carry or your teammates can carry to help with it so Ill skip that.
Teams can body block for each other, take protection hits, sabotage hooks, flashlight or flash bang the Killer, or as previously stated; use their perks to help you.
When someone talks skill against tunneling, they are usually referring to the chase and getting good at looping, spinning, using pallets at the right time, jumping in and out of lockers, flashlights, and vaulting ( I may be missing others). Winging the chase when you don't know the maps well doesn't usually work out for too long unless the killer is equally unfamiliar.
Once you know the map well, you can have a plan in your head for the path you wish to take in the areas you know you'll find pallets and obstacles to loop around or vault through. This is where decision making comes in. You have to decide when to drop a pallet when you're looping as to not waste it early. Then know not to return to that spot expecting the pallet to be there.
The longer you can prolong the chase, the longer your teammates can sit on generators. When you're really good, you may be able to run someone around long enough to get them to quit chasing you entirely, or all the gens will be done.
So Tunneling only works when the Killer can 1) keep track of the previously hooked person 2) can hit that person without hitting someone else who is blocking 3) can only hook the tunneled person if the hook is operational, close enough, and not being blocked by a crouching teammate 4) can catch the person the killer is chasing 5) the game hasn't ended because the survivors were too skilled at out maneuvering the killer.
I can tell you I'm not that great at the chase yet, but I am getting better and better every time I play. Being tunneled by Killers is part of what is making me better.....out of necessity. This is all part of the game.
As far as your specifics, Death slingers can be dodged. I'm not saying you're going to be able to dodge it every time, but I do 75% of the time.
Nothing is guaranteed. But learning the skills necessary for the game will make tunneling less of a threat and more of an asset for your team to give them the time on generators without fear of getting caught out.
Another part is when you are too willing to run up to a hook to rescue a teammate with the killer standing right there. What do you expect is going to happen?
They aren't going to die right away....so if the killer is camping, do a gen until the last second and rescue then if you feel its worth it. Otherwise, thank your teammate for their sacrifice and escape with 3. I'd much rather escape with 3 than 1 through a hatch or none because you felt you had to save the first guy on his last hook.
When I play killer, Ill camp and tunnel when i need pressure and the survivors are out playing me in chases or around the generators. Most of the time, they will all come to save their friend(the bait) which pulls them off gens and gives me some free shots on survivors to soften them up. from there, I can start regressing gens, forcing them to use pallets I can break and soften the map to be more killer friendly for chases later.
The point is, you cant start playing a game and expect to be amazing at it right off the bat. There's a lot to learn and the things you may think are unfair now, wont seem so bad after you've taken the time and put in the effort to learn the game. I'm still learning.
I'm also tired of all the whining and complaining about things being unfair when their New Threads should be asking questions on how they could get better.
I said it's nasty because frankly it is. People refuse to see both sides of the situations surrounding playstyles on this game and always chalk it down to skill issues when it isn't even that to begin with. To push off an actual issue in this game and regard it as a non-issue that goes away the second you "git gud" isn't even something that should be normalized. Every single game has quirks, every single game has it's balancing issues, and to push the issues under the bus isn't benefiting anyone whatsoever. Everything you stated here is something that I already do on this game, I throw pallets down strategically with consideration on if I want to come back to it later. I also try to take bodyblocks for survivors coming off hooks. However, I cannot control OTHER people bodyblocking for me when it comes to solo Q. I cannot control which pallets other people throw down in solo queue, or duo queue. You say teammates can take hits, bodyblock, use flashlights/flashbangs, but I want actual factual information for how many people in solo q actually play this way to begin with, because I can GUARANTEE you it isn't a lot.
I have over 4000 hours in this game, so I'm by far not new. And still, no matter how much game sense I have, no matter how much I know the maps, no matter what perks I'm running, if a killer wants me dead, almost every killer can tunnel me off the hook and get away with it due to the powers that they have. You say deathslingers can be dodged, but that isn't good enough. Not every deathslinger is going to mess up a shot around a very tight loop. I also mentioned SEVERAL other killers that can all counterplay against you in the situation of being pulled off hook. So again, you say that camping can be countered so I want to know what exactly can be done to counter camping REALISTICALLY in a Solo Queue/Duo Queue environment. I know not to dive into the hook if someones being facecamped 99% of the time, but can I say the same for the others who ultimately get paired with me that play like bots and hook dive anyway and essentially throw the whole game, therefore dropping my MMR even more and putting me against more and more killers who do this at 5 gens?
You say you are tired of whining and complaining about things being unfair instead of how they can get better, but you also fail to see that not every situation is a situation to grow in, like it sounds like you are saying. There is no potential to grow when you personally have done everything that you can to deal with camping/being tunneled and you get no help whatsoever due to solo queue teammates. You may say it's expected to blame your teammates at that point, but I think a killer can be blamed aswell for the way they choose to play right off the bat when a game starts. You yourself even say "I'll camp and tunnel when I need pressure...etc" yet they have people out here who go into a match with the expectation already set to sit here and tunnel every single person off of the hook.
Sorry if this comes off as passive aggressive or anything. I'm just tired of having played this game for this long, for the last 6 years, and everyone always says it's "Your fault" for being tunneled, for being camped. I don't tunnel survivors willy nilly when I play killer, and I certainly don't blame the survivors lack of skill on a reason why they would be tunneled out to me. Sure I might say because it seems like they were the weak link, but most of the time it's because they are already injured and in a good position for me to down them. I've had actual killers call me trash because they went out of their way to chase me through 2 damn people to make sure I die. It isn't always black and white. You have these 5 criteria to be met on if a killer can tunnel you or not when half of the time (More like 75%) it just WORKS. Everyone always says "Oh just do gens to punish them" As if that logic actually makes sense in solo queue. Do you know how little I see people actually punish killers doing that when they play this way? Again, everything here is from solo/duo queue perspective. This has gotten to be so much of an issue, as a matter of fact, that they made BORROWED TIME BASEKIT. That says something. IF tunneling wasn't an issue, then why do that to begin with? And they also made yet another perk to try to counter camping, just like camaraderie, and neither of these things are enough. Instead of them actually helping out, it feels like the camping and tunneling situation has gotten even worse which isn't the direction the devs wanted it to go.
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@Draxlore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222300#Comment_3222300
I'd move on to the next match. If I wasn't having fun I'd do something that was fun.
You have the power to choose to play games that you find fun and not play games that you get stressed over. It sounds like this game may not be good for your mental health if you get so worked up over losing due to lack of skill.
This is what confuses me about this type of argument. It's almost as if you're rubbing his face in your argument and being very nasty about it, because this isn't the first time you've brought up "Skill" or learning a proper "Counterplay"
What does this even mean? Outside of running Off the Record, what do you even mean counterplay? This is what I never understand about people who advocate for tunneling and camping. It's a conundrum, you people say to get better at the game against a playstyle you can literally do NOTHING about 99% of the time besides running one particular perk. Where is the performance here? What is there to exactly grow off of here? There is no skill involved. If a Deathslinger for example decides to tunnel me off of hook and by chance he hits me with his spear and waits out the rest of the borrowed time, that isn't my fault. That isn't anyones fault and to say "Well you could've just outplayed it" is pure ignorance. It's the same with Nurses who can eat your borrowed time and insta blink 2 seconds after that ontop of you, the same with pyramid heads who can follow you close by with M2 and just wait for the proper time to actually use it whether it's a pallet or a vault, it's the same as a blight who pulls the exact same move off as a nurse. I keep seeing all these people say it's a skill issue all snidely but MAJORITY of the time, it's people being put into situations they can't do anything about because they are A. Already Injured, and B. The killer is hot on their trail following them and just waiting out the few seconds that they have to possibly reach a pallet, that almost half of the killers in this game have powers to counteract.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121969#Comment_3121969
I'm very surprised that's never been tested
a forfeit or a surrender no one loses rank or something along those lines
Something like this, or hell, even limit the time a match is allowed to go for! No normal match will exceed 30 minutes, at that point, SOMEONE is holding someone hostage. There's no reason why they shouldn't have a time cap on matches.