le_epic_noob
le_epic_noob
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- le_epic_noob
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@BritneyMitch said:
So back when I used to work on game balance for another game we had a character come out that was a cute cat. This cat was initially made to be super new player friendly and allow people with skill discrepancies to enjoy playing together more. abilities were basically impossible to mess up, but also not really a lot of special things you can do with it in terms of expressing skill. the character ended up becoming a nightmare to balance because of this and some other reasons, and basically ruined the game play at pretty much any level of gameplay. For awhile we updated the character with patches, nerfing and buffing various things in hopes to get the character in a better state. After about a couple years of literally nerfing or buffing the character she was in her most unhealthy state. As a team, we had to just bite the bullet and say, "hey, this one did not work out, we cannot balance them to be fun, enjoyable, or have counterplay." What we eventually did is nerf her so hard that they had the lowest winrate in history of the game of any character ever. She was literally the most unplayable guaranteed lose that I have every seen in a video game. She has been reworked some and today can get picked, but by no means is strong.
The reason we nerfed her to this point is in our opinion it was just a flat out failed design. Just a 0/10 design that cannot exist in the game, and needs to be so so so weak that nearly nobody picks her. This is what happened, nobody picked her and the character was largely forgotten.
Trickster is DBD's "Yuumi." There is not a way to balance trickster so that he is fair or fun for both sides. Trickster is either going to get bullied by his slow downs he gets with his knives, or get main event so fast its so oppressive that its impossible to lose with him. In my opinion, and frankly most of the communities, Trickster is just a garbage experience to play into or as. They have tried changing some numbers and things about trickster and really, both the killer side and survivor side pissed and moaned about it. This is just one of the killers that didn't work out. It was a bad design and BHVR should just nerf him to a place where he gets 0 gameplay until a full remaster/rework comes out that is 100% unrelated to the current iteration of trickster.
i get where you are coming from but we do not ask for another rework, we are simply are asking for a revert. i dont know how hard/easy it is but what im complaining about is them not saying anything and being left in the dark on whats going on in the background
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742548#Comment_3742548
- What playstyles?
- I think he has always had this issue.
- Again what playstyle and i don't think it's good enough to be considered a win button. It's only really effective if survivors exposes their line of sight after being injured.
- That's unfortunate i'll admit
- True
- It seems to work atm for me. I notice the injured scratch stays on dying survivors after downing them with knives but it seems to look ok atm but i do know that it been bugged in the past
- Unfortunate, again.
- True but it's only a minor issue for me and i don't really notice it in the heat of gameplay but hopefully they fix it soon
These to me are issues that can be fixed and improved upon, i don't see why all this warrants reverting the rework entirely.
- before you could do tapping to not have to deal w/ the recoil and to save ammo but not there is no recoil and you get main event every injury so ammo is not a problem. another playstyle was trying to get hits from afar/small gaps but with the current 8 knives, there is no reason to do so because knives have less significance
- before he was 110 and his throw rate would ramp up. it HEAVILY encouraged you to use knives since you could down them VERY fast if you are good w/ them but if you m1, they get a lot of distance since you used to be a 110 killer
- it removed a playstyle around an addon that got reworked. before there used to be a addon that would reload your knives after main event and allowed you to play trickster w/o needing to reload a single time if you had really good aim.
6. i should have specified this. im talking about from the survivors POV. before every single time you got hit by a single knife, a single laceration strand around the survivors appears but now when you get hit by tricksters knives, instead of them appearing one by one, they appear all at once
7. some trickster players including myself flick to get hits and use his hands as an indicator but with it being offsynce, you cant flick
and there is currently a photosentivity issue that covers the survivors screen purple and every single time they are hit by a knife, i flashes white which could kill people but sadly not many people know about this and still play trickster
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742543#Comment_3742543
You should still absolutely use knives over M1s it would be very bad not to. Knives have no cool down, no weapon wipe animation, very little punishment for holding, and give main event. If you spend most of the game M1ing you will start to lose more and more until your MMR drops and then you start winning again.
And you said yourself there are other killers who tunnel and slug better so you might as well leave his main event alone. And his main event isn’t bad either, definitely not great without add ons but not bad.
There are only 6-8 ranged killers in the game trickster included. He is the only one who can down someone before they use their on hit speed boost fully. He moves at 96% when holding knives and 115% normally. There are definitely a lot of reason to play him. I use to main him and still play him a lot. He definitely needs some tweaks but in no way should he be reverted to 110% Slinger and Huntress should be 115% as well
yes you should use your knives but every single map that is open, there are a bunch on clutter that the survivor can put in between you can them by simply taking 1 step to the right
main event w/o addons can BARELY give you an injury if you have decent aim, and if you dont down/injure then you have to deal with the stun and having you ability removed for 5 ish seconds which gives the survivor enough time to make it to a loop. and thats only if you catch them in the open, you CANNOT injure them if they have a structure unless you have addons which you can try to mind game them but only if they arent patienttrickster isint a ranged killer unless you plan on lobbing 8 knives w/o the laceration meter going down then be my guest. with the new trickster, no the hell he cant. with 8 knives and your stagnant throw rate, the survivors have more than enough time to use their speed and get to a structure. if you want to down someone really fast over loops? play xeno or huntress. want to hit people from far away? play huntress. want to pressure a group of people? there is legion, bubba, pyramid head and huntress. want to do cool shot? slinger exists. do you want to show of your skill? huntress has an insane skill celling. huntress is current trickster but better
lastly, huntress and deathslinger should not be 115. players should be incentivized to use their m2 and not rely on m1
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@OrangeBear said:
Personally i like the new version of trickster better. Being 4.6m/s and having no recoil makes him way less frustrating to play than the old version. I do not want it back.
I only want more ammo basekit since i have to reload after every chase and make memento blades basekit, rework memento blades, the combo duration add-ons, death throes compilation.i understand where you are coming from but here are some of the issues trickster mains have with the rework
the standardized throw rate promotes spamming and heavily discourages other play styles.
the 8 blades to injure makes his knives useless and makes it better to m1 in most situations.
his main event being only 8 knives removed a play style and creates this "press x to win" button which promotes slugging, camping and brain dead gameplay.
with the combo system being reworked, trickster has lost a bit of personality since the old combo didnt reset upon injury and would allow trickster to continue it w/ him saying stuff like "hoo" "hya" and "ha" every knife throw which gave him more personality.
the rework either directly or indirectly butchered his addons making 70% of his addons useless.
the survivors laceration ui has been bugged for who knows how long.
trickster no longer turns around and winks at you in the lobby.
tricksters throwing knives are off synced when using memento blades.
and all of this is just the top of my head. many well known trickster content creators such as wacek and revvium are against current trickster w/ revvium going on trickster strike for quite a while now. i hope you can see why exactly the rework is hated
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Trickster moves at 115 so he can actually get good value from M1 perks. On top of having a main event as well. There are definitely several reason to play him rather than Huntress. I would say there is even more of a reason now considering he gets main event more than twice a game finally.
before, the whole point of trickster was knives. right now, in most situations it better to m1. your just playing m1 killer with a 40m lullaby, there is no reason to play trickster when there are killers that do what he can but better. his main event is utterly useless unless you use addons and its very unhealthy that you get main event every injure, it encourages unhealthy behavior such as slugging, tunneling and camping. funny thing is, there are other killers who are better at slugging, tunneling and camping .