Vahlin
Vahlin
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Just a quick thought on slugging. There are some situations where it is unavoidable and some situations where it is the best tactical choice. If changes were to be made, I could see a viable compromise being to allow survivors to pick themselves up after 70s, but doing so adds a hook state to the survivor and they are treated the same as having used deliverance to self unhook; granting the normal benefits of being unhooked but leaving them broken for 60s. Since it would cost a hook state, it wouldn't be available when on death hook and it would need to be disabled during end-game collapse but during regular play there is a risk vs reward scenario for the survivor. They don't have to wait on the ground for a rescue but they are one stage closer to death and can't reset for a full minute. I don't know if this has already been discussed but just wanted to throw it out there.
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The concept behind hex perks is pretty straightforward; high powered at the risk of permanently losing them during play. There are a couple issues with this concept. Because of the random placements, it may take a survivor wasting several minutes to find and disable that hex which creates an inefficiency in early game that can offset losing the perk late game. On the other hand, I've been in games where less than two minutes into the game, 3 of 4 perks were disabled which means I had perks for one chase and then was basically perkless from pure bad luck. The second issue is that not all of the hexes are strong enough to even consider that risk or have hefty activation requirements and then run the risk of activating directly under a survivor's nose thereby preventing any value from the perk.
The randomness is both an issue of the program logic for selecting totems and the maps themselves. Some maps, totems are very tricky to find without a perk while others can be spotted from almost the other side of the map. The cleanse ability is needed to balance the effect of an overpowered perk. Trying to adjust every map to have completely balanced totems is just impractical. The questions becomes, is it possible to adjust the spawn logic to be more fair? If you make all the totems spawn as far from survivor spawns, they will end up clustered and the survivors can use that logic to find them fairly easily.
@LordGlint said:
I feel like the most you really should do is maybe make the totems look like normal dull totems for the first 30 seconds or so. This will help alleviate all the times survivors spawn on them. Beyond that, there's no reason to hinder the intended counterplay to totems.
I like the suggestion from LordGlint where hexes don't become active until 30 seconds into the match but adding logic that they then spawn as far as possible from survivor's (probably using the same system as cenobite's cube). This will have a more random distribution based on how the survivors have spread in the early match and prevent them appearing on a survivor to be insta-cleansed while maintaining the current concept of hunting them down and cleansing.
Another idea could be to rework hex totems so they have a persistent weaker effect and while ignited, a much stronger version or secondary effect. That leaves them still meeting the concept of powerful perks that carry the risk of being countered by cleansing but leaves the killer with some minor effect to continue playing with. Perhaps something like ruin is 150% regress on a gen when not being worked, but after cleansing, it reduces to just increasing regression rate 25%. Now you still get some benefit benefit when kicking gens or using another regression perk but it's far less potent. This could take some sting out of immediately losing hexes due only to bad luck. It is important to note that some hexes have unique mechanics where they would need to be left unchanged such as those that trigger on cleanse or have conditional effects such as Hex: Face the Darkness. There are also a few hexes that need reworks to even justify the vulnerability such as Hex: Two Can Play.
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While it is true that some killers are easier to learn than others due to complexity of the power, this doesn't always align as suggested. Huntress is an easy to learn killer but far deadlier than a trapper in most situations. I could go off on balance and asymmetrical game play but I'll leave that alone for now.
An example of this is your idea of increasing the area of the traps you suggest. Where to put the traps is one of the types of skill expression Trapper players should learn over time, this would jump over that.
I understand where you're coming from but I suspect you are overrating the impact of this suggestion. This is a design shift to counter a minor but very annoying aspect. If you trap a narrow corridor, the trap will not actually block a survivor if they are aware of the trap's position but due to the larger model of the killer, the trapper's trap will trap the trapper allowing the survivor an easy escape. You can't stack traps in a way to counter this so it means they have reduced value in places that should be all but guaranteed. The change recommended would force the survivor to slow when approaching such a trap giving the trap some use against highly aware players by creating an opportunity for a hit in chase while only having the traps be slightly more effective against the oblivious any other time.
Oni is on the other side of the coin, he's quite strong in the hands of an experienced Oni player. If you improved him to make him stronger for newer killers, he'd be far too powerful in the hands of experienced players.
Oni can be very strong in the hands of an experienced player but that strength comes in the form of knowing how and when to utilize the ability and typically only truly manifests if able to get multiple downs in a single power use. The suggestion is to allow that skill to manifest earlier in a match without making it more potent. When you speak of experienced players, it is important to remember that it is relative to the competition. An experienced oni will absolutely destroy new players but quite often a Trapper will as well. If we are concerned about adjusting power levels for newer players to not feel completely overwhelmed, that is a separate issue (one I could get behind) that could have something akin to MMOs where there is a bonus applied to new players until they reach a certain checkpoint. Perhaps a perk or item that is only usable by players with less than a certain number of hours.
GF's first chase is very important. An early stalk and down puts him in a great position, while if the survivors run out the first stalk he's way behind. It's a risk reward inherent to his character.
You don't have to always commit to the stalk, you can get stalks 99ed on multiple survivors and then pop them later in the match.
While these are absolutely correct observations on the killer and 99ing is a useful technique, I must still insist that the reward is underwhelming for the required setup. Even with an early game stalk and down putting him in a good position, this isn't any better than other killers getting an early down. I've seen many killers without an expose mechanic get a two tap and have a hook within the first 30 secs of game. The 99% stalk is the most common way to use his ability to get quick successive downs and create a high pressure on the survivors but he doesn't do well at maintaining that pressure. With the current rate of gen completion and number of sprint based exhaustion perks, the Ghostface just feels outclassed, an opinion that seems widely held based on many low rankings for him on tier lists. I'm guessing you are a Ghostface player, so I'm curious what kinda stats you see from normal play since tier list are always going to be biased. Is there something you believe could elevate him to a more consistent experience without sacrificing his unique playstyle?
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454776/killer-adjustments-setup
Since i main myers and know his lore due to being a huge fan of movies and movie script.
I think he should get a passive power mobility wise to move really fast speeds while he is not LOS and nearby.
Then undetectable in tier 2 either during stalking but if he is in chase it will drain the tier 2 power while stalking.
Iri wise i dont personally use his tier 3 at all due to how weak it is in comparison to ghostface and other killers
I proposed the teleport since I think it would be easier to implement and gain the effect for consistently. I fully agree that a fast movement when not being observed would be far more lore accurate and force the player to outmaneuver survivors making a higher skill floor. My concern is the mechanics of fast move when unobserved being clunky to implement. Would you need a reveal mechanic like Ghostface to break the move bonus or will it potentially just randomly cut off without you knowing why. If you have a reveal mechanic, the animation would have to be adjusted or I suspect it would look awkward to run in a walking animation. I do appreciate the input as a fan of the franchise.
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Limiting perks for balancing is not a bad idea. The main point I would make is that trying to restrict with categories of similarities would be difficult with a lot of perks, especially perks that grant multiple benefits. I could see benefits for the developer and game balancing. An individual perk may seem to be OP but is only so because of what it combines with. By limiting the perks that can be used together, you can create a system with better balance and encourage diversity in play. Instead of nerfing and buffing individual perks, it can be just as effective to move a category to prevent an unbalancing stack effect. I don't expect this would ever happen as the potential to alienate veteran players when making a major adjustment is just too high.
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"Could always put a hard limit on how much a survivor can be healed during a trial before they're stuck perma-broken."
This could be feasible but would be tricky to balance since often escaping from a chase is accomplished by another survivors intervention. It might change how much risk players are willing to accept in order to help teammates. What about limiting the usage conditions? I can think of a few possible options.
- A survivor can only self-heal from injuries caused by a killers attack while getting pulled from a hook leaves you wounded until a different player heals you.
- You can only self-heal if there are fewer survivors remaining. Whether that number is 3 remaining or 2 would require testing.
- Being chased puts a timer until you can start self-healing while other players can heal you immediately. If you escape the chase you can't immediately heal yourself as you have to wait to be calm enough to administer self aid. The length of the timer would need some testing and perhaps it can be modified by some perks such as the self-care perk reducing the timer a certain percentage.
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I have a similar opinion on self-healing but while not being able to pressure survivors can be an issue, I feel the self-healing mechanic is fundamentally flawed.
The base issue is that self-healing acts as a force multiplier. Under normal play, the survivor needs to be healed by another. This takes two survivors off objectives and with multiple players moving in the same area, increases likelihood of being spotted. By self-healing, even at a reduced rate, you have reduced risk and effectively increased the rate of objective completion. With only a med-kit, this isn't too bad as the charges are consumed rather quickly but with the perks you can self-heal without limit and without utilizing your item slot.
Without being able to see how gameplay is effected by modifications to rate of healing, I would propose simply limited the number of uses. If self-care could only be used once per match, it would effectively function like having a basic med-kit without having to use your item slot. If the boon perk: circle of healing were to be limited uses per match (using charges like a med kit to track) that could help with keeping pressure on the survivors without completely destroying the concept of the perks.
Another option that could be explored is adding a cool-down to self heals though I don't think this would be as beneficial to balance with the relatively short match times.