Lilikraken
Lilikraken
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649957#Comment_3649957
Do you mean make a new thread?
I have to be honest, this recent patch managed to take Billy from my all time favorite killer to play/verse to my my most disliked to vs and feels insanely unsatisfying to play.
Please, above all else, revert the change to the sensitivity window. It makes Billy feel ungodly boring to play. No down feels satisfying. No mind games are needed, I can simply outplay a jungle gym from the other side of it without the survivor having any idea.
My favorite part of Billy was how satisfying downs were, because they required very good play on your side to get. They also required the survivor misplay, but now no matter what they do, it will be a down if you're even a remotely decent Billy. Even with how strong you guys recently made him, it still required good mind games and proper zoning to curve, etc. I assume that the increased sensitivity period is to try and band-aid fix the changing sens between non-overdrive and overdrive, but this is a terrible fix and needs to be reverted.
I am genuinely considering no longer maining Billy, because I don't feel I am outplaying my opponent with skill, simply an insta down killer that can outplay almost any tile in the game with this change. You've taken away so much player agency when vsing him as well, it just feels terrible. I have always been so very excited to vs Billy, like I said, he's my favorite killer. I now feel frustration if I see they're even slightly good at him, because I know what I do does not matter, I will die.
BIG TAKEAWAYS, seriously, please listen to this......
- Revert the sensitivity window change - it deletes skill floor and ceiling for billy <-- THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OUT OF EVERYTHING
- The base miss c/d change was not needed, you should have deleted one of his cool down add-ons instead of nerfing base-kit, because he felt very good base-kit without being broken.
- If you are DETERMINED to keep the nerf to his miss c/d, please do not remove the movement after bonking, it makes up for how sluggish he feels from "missing", because it is very common to zone survivors by "missing".
- Instead of a billion Overdrive add-ons, give us back some of the older addons as mentioned before - Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, etc. We are finally at a point where we aren't add-on reliant and you take away literally any interesting add-ons. Another good suggestion was making Cracked Primer Bulb permanent Overdrive, but still one health state.
- While the sensitivity between Overdrive and non-Overdrive is still an issue, most of us have managed to deal with it after a lot of practice this last couple of weeks. While it still needs to be ADDRESSED, because it makes using his power at smaller loops insanely hard, it is not worth destroying how enjoyable Billy normally is to play / vs to fix it. I think the vast majority of us that don't want free wins would keep the way sensitivity was last week over this change.
- You already managed to make Billy beginner accessible with the addition of Overdrive, it helps with a lot of things and can help carry a new Billy against newer survivors, you do NOT need an increased turn window for this.
- Killers with massive map mobility and an insta down ability should require a moderate amount of skill to do good with and you've removed that requirement with this change. Instead you've changed him to a VERY BORING insta-down killer.
- If you think people were upset about BIlly's miss c/d with double c/d or tmix/lopro, just wait till more people realize how broken/free you've made Billy with this change. They will pray for you to revert it, too.
- Last weeks version of Billy was SO close to perfect, but you went extremely heavy handed with this change and it's a mistake. If you listen to the stuff above, you will make Billy mains that like having Billy strong, but fair and SATISFYING to get downs with, VERY HAPPY. Survivors were already getting better at versing new Billy, but you are taking away them learning how to "loop" and "play tiles" by making it INSANELY UNSAFE no matter what. The ideal way to vs him now is to pretend to play the tile and leave, every single time. People main Billy for the chase and mind games, you've taken away any need for that and have basically told survivors, "if you want any chance of survival, stop interacting with Billy".
I can't stress enough how sad this update makes me. For years Billy has been my favorite, even when he was a struggle with Overheat, because nothing compared to how satisfying getting a well earned curve felt....then you took away all of that enjoyment with this change. I just don't know how to stress this anymore than, you ruined my favorite killer. I'm trying to be positive, but man...this took me from being excited to log on every day (for the first time in years, mind you...7.1k hours, and I haven't been so excited in such a long time), to me struggling to even make myself play Billy at all.
Below are some examples of clips that were shared with me during my stream, and some are me as well. This sens window change literally makes him uncounterable at certain loops and just overall so boring. I just can't say it more than that.
Tell me how a survivor would ever know this is coming or how to counter it? It requires no mind games, just having a rough idea where the person is. While this is definitely an impressive clip, it shows you just how ridiculous good BIllys will be with this and how bad it will be to vs them.
This clip is me at a Jungle gym and the Billy is wearing just one pair of boots in this clip. So, Overdrive + the new sens window allows him to not mind game at all and still down me here. I have so much distance on him, this should not be possible. He would have needed to go at least DOUBLE where he started that curve at before he could curve me previously, so i would have made the inside of the Jungle Gym, which is FAIR and leaves room for counter play. I feel like I need to get ahead of this and say - OVERDRIVE IS FINE, the mechanic is well balanced, nerfing it does not resolve the issue this change created, you just make him weaker without bringing back the reward of skill depth and ceiling - the sens period needs to be reverted and you bring back so much enjoyment.
https://fxtwitter.com/RealSlowLoris/status/1757902157750428101?s=20
This isn't the best clip, but I just haven't felt like playing him since this change. I think it's a good example of removing player agency on survivor side. This isn't the best tile, but Toba Landing collision is terrible, and I am able to start the curve MUCH earlier than I normally would and since the sens window is SO LONG NOW, Renato outplays me and doesn't go to vault the pallet, he goes WIDE, but I can see him and I change my course mid turn window. How is that fair to him? He outplayed me by not just camping/vaulting, and I'm now only able to start the curve early, but completely correct my mistake.
https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyFreezingBaconHassanChop-U40kcHrQs5VOkOLB
This is another clip that was shared with me and in my opinion it is one of the hardest tiles in the game for Billy. There is a lot of player agency at this pallet normally, and if a survivor insta drops it I will normally immediately break it. However, you've made his turn window so long that I can just completely ignore this pallet....there should be strong loops against Billy like there were last week and I can attempt to outplay them and hope the survivor makes a mistake. I shouldn't be able to just completely disregard proper spacing / awareness.
Finally, one more example given to me. This survivor has good spacing and is playing well vs Billy at a pallet that is VERY STRONG vs him. However, it doesn't matter, because he's able to correct his curve SO LATE.
I don't know what else I can say, except...please...please revert this change. I miss playing him already, but I just do not find him enjoyable now. It's like you gave me a brand new toy after years of Billy being so ungodly weak, then after letting me play with it a little, you took it away, then gave me a replacement that I hate.
I appreciate you guys trying to continue improving him, but I beg you...please listen to those of us that have mained Billy for years and don't want him OP, just strong and fair. Read my previous feedback posts, I go GREATLY in depth - I spent hours writing things like this for you guys.
There are many other very skilled Billy mains that I talked into giving feedback in this thread previously. Pretty much every single one of them agree they hate this change and it has ruined their favorite character. They're biding their time trying to hit crazy clips, but praying it's reverted. I'd try to get them to submit more feedback, but after I got them to come give feedback before and none of it appears to have been listened to, except chainsaw volume, most of them don't want to waste their time, because they feel like you aren't listening to the consistent feedback that was given. I appreciate you guys trying to continue to improve Billy, but when you have a community of people that are giving you very precise and helpful feedback, constructively, it'd feel really nice to know that it's not going unheard, since this change feels like you guys did not listen to people that didn't just complain, etc.
I don't want to trouble them to do so, but I will say Lynn & Zain (the two in the picture below) are literally two of the best Billys. Zain literally mained Billy during pre-buffed Overheat until now BASE-KIT. He knows Billy inside and out, and Lynn is a non-meta add-on user as well.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FOTB9BH09ZNN/image.png
Lastly, a screen shot from a Discord of Billy mains. I hope they don't hate me for sharing this, but since I don't feel they will believe their feedback is listened to, they may not bring it to you, so I'm going to.
Most of the people in this Discord have either thousands of hours in Billy, or really enjoy killers that have a high skill ceiling / recently got back into Billy due to his rework. The response seems to be roughly the same amongst most of them. So, from semi-new (but high skill killer enjoyers) to extreme Billy Veteran, people agree this change is a mistake.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SMDFWPX8LGAX/image.png
Even the people that are saying keep the 1 second window during Overdrive are ONLY saying that, because they don't know if you have an idea on how to eventually fix the Overdrive sens, but the majority of us would rather it just be the way it was before if it can't be resolved in a way that doesn't ruin him (like the current change does).
Alright, I'm done talking your ear off, I just...man, I'm so sad about this. I feel so unsure if I'll ever be able to enjoy Billy again, because I don't know if you'll even consider reverting this. I'd legitimately take Overheat Billy before having this increased sensitivity window, because he feels so boring to play. I think that's kind of crazy, if you think about it. I'd rather play a very weak killer that massively struggles with DBD maps in 2024, than play the new shiny killer you gave us, because you increased the sensitivity window. It seems like a small change, but it truly ruins any sort of actual skill expression.
I hope you took time to read this, I realize it's a long one, but I felt I needed to do this in case others didn't feel they'd be listened to, so it'd be a waste of time.
I'm always available for back and forth if you'd like to talk Billy and the Billy mains that actually want a strong balanced killer would very much appreciate an open dialogue on if you'll consider reverting this change, etc.
Thanks for your time, Slow Loris
@Peanits I know that you have unpinned the forum, but I really implore you to read the quoted post and give my post due diligence as well. This feedback is important, to a LOT of billy mains, people who have poured countless hours of our lives in dedication to this killer and enjoying him.
This has been the worst week I have ever experienced playing this killer, not because he was weak and miserable like he was during Overheat, which I loved and adored him throughout the entirety of. Not because he was strong in contrast to the skill levels of my opponents like he was during the days of Insta-saw and Crack billy, which I played religiously for the 3 years (about) of its existence.
After 14 thousand, and 4 hundred hours, we finally got the PERFECT billy, Overdrive was a perfect rework of Overheat that added an extra management and skill expression to the killer which made him feel rewarding to play. His values were adjusted and there was a lot to relearn about the killer, and he was in such a fantastic spot.
Then he was patched, you guys reworked him based on disingenuous feedback, from people who did not understand the actual problems the killer was facing, they were inexperienced, and they spoke from a place of ignorance.
The truth of the matter is the following things are ACTUALLY the problem:
REVERT the Curve timing change made in the patch, return the value from 1 second to .75. I will attach clips of things that are simply unfair that this killer is capable of achieving such levels of strength, and keep in mind, the answer is not NERFING anything, it is simply fixed by reverting the change he got.
Addons, there is no reason for the killer to have so many addons based around OD, especially when prior to these changes, he was JUST escaping an addon reliant existence he languished in for so long. Give us back Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, Mothers Helpers, let us have fun with the killer now that different addons are now actually viable!
The cd change is perfectly fine, if this is the direction you wish to take, to address cd stacking and the problems of cd reduction, I respect it, I do not however think it was NECESSARY to nerf base cd when you could've just taken Greased Throttle and used it to do what I previously mentioned about addons. and for the love of all that is holy, rework Lopro so that it counts as its OWN cd, instead of a "saw cd" so that it doesn't interact with cd addons anymore. This will make the addon suitably strong and give his zoning potential a much-needed hit, instead of overall gutting his cd.
Now for the clips!
The first will be a clip explaining in depth, how in a situation on one of the strongest tiles in the game, a good billy, a billy MAIN, explains in detail how there is no SAFE decision she can make, that doesn't result in her down:
https://youtu.be/eKpmowq_6BUThen Ill include several other curves that should not be possible, or if possible, only with a PERFECT curve, and not with the degree of skillessness I did in these clips:
https://youtu.be/HK4lA9ivlFo https://youtu.be/WQBH-Kyjs0I https://youtu.be/05byFGnWLcwPLEASE consider listening to this feedback BHVR, this killer is not rewarding anymore, they have become unfun to play, and they are literally so strong and free right now, that its BAFFLING that more people arent complaining, you were SO CLOSE to perfect. We were RIGHT THERE, and you let it slip...