Kruddimus
Kruddimus
About
- Username
- Kruddimus
- Joined
- Visits
- 15
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Ariel_Starshine said:
Where is that information from and can it be verified to be accurate?
I figure only behavior has access to the correct, true data.
It's from Nightlight, basically people upload screenshots of their scoreboards after matches and that compiles what perks were being used. It's about as accurate as you can get without being able to see the raw data directly from the game itself.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
If you weren't drunk you woulda said "pretty good job so far."
Damn, I missed a trick lmfao.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Your suggestion that "in a perfect world" it would only be chase and info perks isn't very balanced. If I run enduring/spirit fury bamboozle ultimate weapon then I can find people easily and shut down chases quickly. The only reason that combo isn't broken is because all chase builds leave a huge weakness...Gen rush. Balanced loadouts need variety.
Variety is the spice of life, the idea of any sort of forced meta will outstay it's welcome very quickly. As a killer player I don't want to make my Survivor players' games super unfun or boring to play against. I want my matches to be interesting.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619465#Comment_3619465
Sure, but it's not as though killers need to put that effort in to counter the survivor tools. The only unbalanced progression tools that exist right now are toolboxes, and even those aren't in every match and aren't entirely insurmountable. A team with one or two toolboxes can still very much be beaten normally, you don't need to go full ultra-sweaty meta build to achieve that.
As to Prove Thyself, I'd counter that by saying that the number one most picked perk, in both Nightlight's list and the real list BHVR put out, is Windows of Opportunity at a whopping 35% pickrate. Clearly, a perk doesn't have to be strong to be picked frequently, because Windows barely even does anything.
PT can be okay in solo queue especially since you can't really control if your teammates know to split up and bringing PT is usually more efficient than sprinting away from the generator when your teammate joins you, but it's not all that good otherwise- it's definitely not a vital part of genrushing builds, you almost can't genrush if you're grouping up on generators like that.
Take two, I wanted to edit something and for some reason I lost the whole damn reply. UGH, once again this time with feeling!
While it may not seem like a lot, PT can still shave off a good amount of time off progression because of how it alters the efficiency calculation on generators. Most gen rush builds will at most stack 2 people on a gen and 1 person on another, as 2 people bring the time it takes to complete a gen from 90 seconds to 53(all numbers are rounded up because I can't be arsed with decimals), PT on it's own can bring that down to 48, which again may not seem like much but you also have to consider things like what map is being played on, where the Survivors spawned relative to the gens, what Killer is in play, etc. Now factor in Deja Vu and a toolbox. In most cases, a gen will be done before the first chase even starts. Then they can move onto the gen that was already being worked on.
I mean I'd argue Windows is a strong perk that gives you a lot of free map information, it shows you were the deadzones are and it can show you if a loop still has a pallet, or where the windows have spawned. It has a high pickrate because it's easy to use and there's no penalty, people who are good at looping use it to plan out routes and link loops together. Before the nerf you would've seen MFT up there in the top 3(or was it the top 4), that was a very powerful perk in the hands of someone who was experienced enough to get value from it.
I also just wanna be clear, I'm not saying that you're wrong or that I'm correct and only my opinion or perspective matters here. I can only really go off my own experience and by looking at the raw numbers, my assesment may be off-kilter.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619465#Comment_3619465
Sure, but it's not as though killers need to put that effort in to counter the survivor tools. The only unbalanced progression tools that exist right now are toolboxes, and even those aren't in every match and aren't entirely insurmountable. A team with one or two toolboxes can still very much be beaten normally, you don't need to go full ultra-sweaty meta build to achieve that.
As to Prove Thyself, I'd counter that by saying that the number one most picked perk, in both Nightlight's list and the real list BHVR put out, is Windows of Opportunity at a whopping 35% pickrate. Clearly, a perk doesn't have to be strong to be picked frequently, because Windows barely even does anything.
PT can be okay in solo queue especially since you can't really control if your teammates know to split up and bringing PT is usually more efficient than sprinting away from the generator when your teammate joins you, but it's not all that good otherwise- it's definitely not a vital part of genrushing builds, you almost can't genrush if you're grouping up on generators like that.
I mean the most efficient way to rush gens is to have 2 people on one and 1 other person on another, the base progression for 2 people on a generator is about 53 seconds when rounding up, PT can bring that down to about 48 seconds which doesn't seem like much but still pairs really well with toolboxes, hyperfocus and build to last. Hell with 3 people PT further drops the progression from 43 seconds to 36. All numbers are rounded up because I can't be arsed to deal with decimals.
While that is true, Windows is #1 it just gives you free map information, because everyone wants to be like Ayrun or [insert other Survivor content creator here] so they run the perks that they run, believing that it'll magically make them better at the game. When we both know that's not how that works, I took about a 2 or so year break from the game and came back in the middle of the MFT epidemic, although in my MMR bracket most people running it weren't good enough to get value from it, however experienced Survivor players could take that extra 3% move speed to the moon and back again. Also I contribute to Bond being up there because again, solo survivor.
I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm correct, we're probably not looking at the issue from the same angle. My assessment is probably off-kilter a bit but I can only really go off my own experience and by looking at the raw numbers.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619461#Comment_3619461
Ah, gotcha. Well, for the record, your statement is still technically wrong, but not in a super meaningful way.
Overcharge and Ruin for console, and Huntress Lullaby for everyone, are regression perks. They're not good ones, but they do exist.
There's a couple other things I could respond to there, but I didn't want to wordwall at you immediately when I wasn't sure of your original take. I'd point out, regarding this particular take, it doesn't exactly take long to get the iri shards for Clown or Artist, so killers absolutely have access to regression perks (which aren't necessary to begin with) pretty quickly.
Also, Prove Thyself is not even good, let alone very strong. That's the biggest glaring flaw with your post, I wanted to mention it quickly.
Oh yeah because consoles got different chapters for free. I always forget that.
While that is true, it takes significantly less time for newer Survivors to get Deja Vu and a decent toolbox. Which is the issue, Killers either have to fork out real money or spend significantly longer to get the Killer with Iri shards AND on top of that, get those killers to at least Prestige 1, whereas Survivors have access to good progression perks right out of the gate, no additional charge or grind required as every new Survivor has access to Deja Vu and Dwight, and Deja Vu is the 6th most used Survivor perk. You have to see how skewed that is, Killers don't have that equivalent is the point I'm making. Except on consoles but you mentioned yourself that those regression perks aren't very good.
Also Prove Thyself is the 10th most used perk according to Nightlight at 9.58%, in my own experience playing Killer and Survivor, that perk is still strong enough to have a significant impact. It's still a vital piece of gen rush builds which you still see at higher MMR levels. Edit: to clarify, I'm not saying it's overpowered as it's still winnable, I have beaten people who run Prove Thyself in their builds but in those matches I hemorrhaged gens in the span of a few minutes, I either finish those matches with all gens done or 1 gen remaining. Granted I play Deathslinger with Surge as my only regression perk, so maybe if I ran the meta it'd be a different story.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619447#Comment_3619447
Can I ask, what do you mean by "Free DLC" characters here? Your statement about there being no regression perks available through those avenues seems very surprising, but I'm not sure what you're actually referring to.
Basically Killers like Nurse or Huntress, who were added later but didn't cost money at the time.
-
So from what I've skimmed so far from this conversation I feel like the elephant in the room hasn't been addressed yet, the reason why you see a lot of strong regression perks comes down to two factors, gen efficiency is still too strong even after the changes to the total number of charges and after the penalty for 2 people got changed, the other being the strength of progression perks and how they haven't seen any significant changes in YEARS. Prove Thyself was the only one and the change was barely a nerf as it's still not only really strong in SWF but also has a significant impact in solo queues as well, I mostly play solo Survivor these days because Killer can get a little stressful and the rate that I can hammer out gens if someone on my team is running Prove Thyself is ludicrous.
Survivors have access to more than one decent progression perk without needing to purchase a full chapter or a singular DLC character, but since the reintroduction of the Stranger Things chapter, Killers lost the single general regression perk they had, not to mention that they don't have access to any regression perks from any free DLC Killers or the baseline roster, unlike Survivors. Prove Thyself is still incredibly strong and doesn't need a fully co-ordinated team to work, you see it a lot less now but during the MFT meta people would just stay injured because of MFT + Resilience, so they had faster progression on top of being able to run and vault faster. Gen rushing is still viable yet Killers keep losing their regression perks, and then people wonder why Killers play in a way that's not enjoyable to go against like tunneling on 5 gens, or pick Killers who are super strong and unfun to play against like Nurse or Blight, Killers have no way of knowing if they're gonna get genrushed or not so at a certain MMR ranking, that's just how the game is played because Killers wanna play the game too.
I know that the BNP nerf might get brought up so to head that off at the pass, was that really a nerf? At least with the old BNP you can undo the progression with a Pain Res pop, it was rare but it could be done, the new BNP is permanent with zero counterplay available for the Killer and since it permanently removes 10 charges(which also stack so you can remove up to 40), it also makes regression weaker as regression is calculated based on the total number of charges available in a generator. So, was it really a nerf or more of a sideways buff?
I'm not here to start the "Survivor bias vs. Killer bias" discourse because quite frankly that whole discussion is exhausting and goes nowhere, but I thought it was important to also look at this issue from another angle rather than hyperfixating on just the Killer side of things.