aorion
aorion
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I am sorry, is this discussion about... Buffing survivors? So you are trying to find a way to buff survivors without affecting swf or rank 1 bully survivors?
I would say, first, any advantages survivors get via communicating out of game, give those to solos. Ping system, more emotes, better UI, etc.
Then, since this trivializes communication so that everyone is on the same stacked playing field, balance the game around it. Survivors will need to be nerfed to compensate for the improved capabilities. Not s lot, because SWF isn't exactly an instant win button, but if EVERY game played like a SWF game, then it would be a nightmare. The killers would be more afraid than the survivors. Nobody would play killer and queues would get worse.
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Gens complete too fast to not slug. Ultimately the game is all about action economy. The economy says, you need to spend your actions applying maximum m pressure. The game is balanced around maximum pressure. If you are at maximum pressure, then gens will still get done if you don't clear people off the field, just at a rate where you can do something about it.
As long as it costs as much and risks as much as it does to hook a downed survivor, of you have another survivor target, the action economy says the maximum pressure is smacking or chasing another survivor. Especially given all the info you give them with the free aura as the person is being hooked for 10s. That's the end of the story.
There is no morals or high ground or polite play or whatever. There is only game balance and how harsh gen completion rates are. The fact that survivors complain about it is evidence that it works. If you don't like it, make unbreakable permanent and standard (but slower) and slow down gen completion to balance it.
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That's right, nerf killers while the queues suck ;) let's see if this convinces killers to play the game.
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I have been saying this for a while. The discord is very positive. Apparently you don't need perks to slow gens. And you should be able to hook before 3 gens every time (45s from the start of the game). And all killers are viable.
Obviously this isn't true. Basically if you play a killer with less than rank 3 meta perks specifically for slowing the game down, you're toast in about 5 minutes. You can run to exactly one survivor, down, hook, and lose the first gen. Then run to the next survivor, down, hook, and lose 1 more gen. 2 if you were just a little too slow. Oh and everyone had time to heal as well.
Then you have 4 people completing 3 gens. If they are any distance at all apart, you are toast. You have about 45s before the next gen pops, so you need to kick people off gens. But you can't cover all that ground so you are scrambling just to get at least someone sacrificed, so that's where your rule comes in.
The real problem is, you can't base the game balance around perks, because then the game is by definition unbalanced once perks are not available. Nobody who had not leveled multiple of the correct killers for at least a million blood points is going to be able to play a "fair game". I suspect that with ruin and undying, gen speed is about "fair". So by definition, if you are running without that, or some substitute, then gen repair time is objectively not balanced.
The only real solution is a rebalance starting with significantly increased repair difficulty, and after that, tune ruin etc. Down as necessary. This will make more perk combinations and more killers viable.
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I am all for buffing killer in general. As I explained, the objective truth is that there are too few "good" killers out there and this is evidenced by the huge queues for survivor and the terrible matchmaking for low rank killers. You have to make the game more tolerable for killers.
Removing the hatch is not the way to do that. Good games have variability, the hatch provides that. It's another objective for both parties in a game that desperately needs objectives.
The fix needs to come from gen completion time. The killer will eventually win, if it takes too long for the survivors to complete objectives. But today, even stacking all the perks to slow down generator completion, even a pro streamer killer will still lose 1-2 gens just getting across the map and hooking the first survivor. Then the killer has 11 more hooks to go.
Then once he knows where the survivors are, if he doesn't tunnel, 4 survivors on a small number of gens can easily finish those gens if the killer doesn't get a very quick (<30s) down. A lot of chases take 15-30s just to get a single hit, let alone a down. The game really strongly rewards tunneling, which is not fun for survivors, but it is absolutely necessary because the killer is surprisingly impotent when it comes to preventing objective completion. Especially if you aren't running something like ruin/undying, there is a reason it is the meta.
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Look at this guy coming in and complaining as if killer is somehow overpowered in general. That's hilarious.
The objective truth is if you nerfed killer today you would exacerbate the survivor queue and the frequent survivor bullying parties that happen every other game. Because there are fewer skilled killers than there needs to be, and you are trying to chase whoever is left away.
Think about that. In a game about killers and people trying to avoid them, there are regular occurrences of people going in and bullying the killer. That is how tilted the matches can be. Just yesterday I had a survivor in not even a good group sit on gen as I was coming to finish it. And did so because they were within 3-4s of finishing and pulling them off the gen literally broke mid animation, and swings just take literally that long. That's how impotent some killers can be.
But somehow you want to nerf that. The what?
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I mean here's the evidence. It's like chemistry. For every game you need 4 survivors and 1 killer. People pick based on what they want to play. So if 50% of people want to play survivor, and 50% want to play killer, then you get huge wait times for killer. Because survivor is the limiting reagent.
So you disincentivize killer. You buff survivor. You add perks to help with tunneling. You add perks to help with chases. You add addons to help you tear down totems. You do all of that and suddenly the game demographics has swung toward survivor.
Now there are more survivors than killers. The killers are the limit, so the objective reality is they need some incentive. Maybe bump up the blood points. Maybe stop giving me survivor rituals. Maybe nerf some survivor perks so they are easier to deal with. There are a lot of things that won't even break the game. I am in favor of survivor perk nerfs because it leaves the lower levels alone.
Queue times are evidence that the balance between killers and survivors is tilted toward survivor. If survivor is just more fun, people will play survivor. All of the reasons; playing with friends, being more fun, being less stressful, being the default. There are a lot of things that make playing survivor more desirable. The proof is in the queue times. All you have to do is balance the equation.
Also, stop complaining about tunneling. Tunneling is not toxic. It's efficient. If you have one person getting tunneled, with the existence of DS, etc. Then the tunneled person needs to learn to loop. Not to mention you are creating a culture where it's ok to run back to hook because you know there are at least two people there, and you get there and follow the scratch marks, whoops it was the guy who just got unhooked. Or you are hag and you get a trap pop and teleport and swipe, whoops guess it was the guy you just hooked. So do you do what you should do to win the game or do you give the team a pass because so as not to "tunnel"?
I have been accused of tunneling in both cases. IMO it's not the act of tunneling that is toxic, it's the community reaction to and culture around just expecting killers to be nice and let people who just got hooked get away and maybe heal or whatever. Despite the points working against them, despite having invested precious time in doing that, despite the existence of perks that make handling a recently hooked person risky. Just stop complaining about tunneling. It's almost never the killers fault.
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It is a gameplay problem. You are playing a game where the premise is killers killing and tormenting and survivors surviving. And the meta is such that the killers are getting tormented due to, basically, impotency.
This leads to the current situation where survivor queues are terrible and rank 10 killers get put against rank 1 full meta survivors. Because the alternative is too shallow of a killer player pool to adequately service the survivor players.
It is not surprising. Nobody wants to play killer because you basically risk getting doodooed on for 15 minutes just to queue and start it again. The queues don't lie.
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Not sure if it counts, but I will move away from a. Hook and go back if I see someone heading there. Then given the choice between chasing a fresh survivor and one that had been hooked, I will follow the one that has been hooked already. I don't think this is tunneling because I don't set it up to intentionally go after the same guy repeatedly, I just take the best course of action to win the game at that time.
It's my risk because if the guy I follow had DS then I have to eat that perk. They almost always have it, so I end up burning borrowed time or whatever instead.
At the same time, as a killer, I am repeatedly up against rank 1-3 survivors with all meta perks. I have had survivors stalking me (think about that, survivors stalking a killer) just because they know they are 100% safe against me due to the perks they have and their playtime advantage. They are playing to win, I will play to win, because they have already chosen to counterplay against tunneling. I don't consider this toxic or unfair in any way.
The game already punishes against standing near hooked survivors. It punishes against picking them up quickly and getting stabbed. It punishes if you pick the wrong killer and get a bad map for that killer. You get punished if you take a 110 killer and they can counterplay the skill (eg popping traps trivially on hag). You are punished if you camp by the gens get rushed. And even if you did camp, with 2+ survivors unhooking and borrowed time, unless you have NOED they will ALL escape anyway so it doesn't even matter at all.
People complaining against killers camping when the game can be so incredibly stacked against them, by skills or swf or bad matchmaking... *Chef's kiss*
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There is no smurfing in this game because the devs don't a really even bin by skill. I play killer at maybe rank 13? And all I play against are meta survivors with rank 1-3 or so and all the perks. They meme me so hard. It's not fun, but the game is worth it for the progression and the times when matchmaking doesn't dick you over.
Maybe some day there will be matchmaking so it will be possible to play the game without getting stomped by people with all the perks.
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I should also point out that, literally every game is at minimum half red ranks. Why? Give me 13 +-4 or so. I can't stress enough how this makes me not want to play. It's a fun game when things are reasonably balanced, and I don't even care if the skill difference were there but the perks were even, but this was a disgusting mismatch and it needs to get resolved or there's no point in me even booting the game anymore.