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@ThatRyanB said:
I totally hear the frustration here and know I personally can't change how these nerfs feel for you, but I do want to make sure the feedback I'm bringing back to the team is as specific as possible and as representative of your experiences in the game as possible. With that, it makes it easier to advocate for changes.
If you don't mind me pulling this back a step to dig into the details, I'd like to ask two specific questions:
1. Of the two recent nerfs to Fog Vials (reduced opacity; max 2 charges), do you feel that one of these in particular pushed the item from feeling viable to feeling like it's not worth using? If so, which was it?
2. If you could make one specific change to Fog Vials that'd push them towards being an item you'd enjoy using, what would it be?
I hear the more general feedback (and rest assured, it's being collected and shared with the team), but if there are specific facets of the recent nerfs that felt most impactful, I want to make sure I'm giving them my particular attention. That, and things that could make Fog Vials feel better for you (like the great suggestions of increasing the total charges a little more).For me, the infinite charges was the main selling point. I preferred them at 40% opacity vs the current 33%, but if you absolutely must keep them at 33%, you NEED to remove the downsides from the iri addon.
If you keep them as an item with charges, they need to go back to their original strength, iri addon included.
The way I see it, those are your only 2 options if you want players to still use them in some capacity
Edit: Actually, reading through this thread, I'm seeing people basically split into these exact two camps. I propose the blood web contain 2 fog vials then. One with infinite charges and 33% opacity, and one with 2 charges with 45% opacity and smaller radius/shorter duration. Change iri addon to add more charges. Does that not give everyone want they want(?) -
Totems are already very vulnerable, if you let them keep progress but be unable to regress like a gate, you gotta increase the basekit time to cleanse/bless by a not insignificant amount. I'd rather them buff totems to a good starting point so they aren't cleansed 15 seconds into a match. Currently, bringing a single hex you like is very feast or famine, usually but many hexes aren't strong enough to be worth being a hex, so it's often high risk low reward. If you bring Undying you've devoted half your perks to 1 perk. Domination is sort of an ok defense, but bringing 3 perks for hexes is also probably unwise.
I will say Pentimento is probably overtuned because it discourges doing hexes so much, but if they swapped any of the benefits of pentimento around, it would kill the perk. Probably just needs numbers down. Like, cut the genspeed slowdown in half. Make totems not ignite until their effect first comes into play like Face the Darkness/Plaything/Two Can Play. Buff the bad hexes to be a bit worse than Devour Hope (since Devour Hope also comes with requirements) -
I love this map for the visibility it provides. I can follow blood and scratches without any difficulty. Granted, this has downsides for trapper and hag. It’s a little lacking in spooky factor but I enjoy it regardless, giving a nice palette cleanser from the doom and gloom.
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I think this is THE most killer sided map. Small, few avenues to switch floors, pretty limited pallets, breakable walls, and most of the windows are pretty weak without balanced landing. And yet, I find myself enjoying it as a survivor for its extreme predictability. A large portion of the map being relatively static makes it very easy to memorize where everything is, making this one of the easiest maps to learn
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The more interesting of the two RPDs, this version has much more playable space, but survivors benefit from bigger maps and keep the strongest parts of east wing in addition to everything gained from west wing. I preferred when they were one map regardless of balance (except upstairs in the library)
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While I like the addition of the outdoor section out front from what we originally had, I do still miss the original combined RPD. Except the second floor of the library? That can stay gone.
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Seconding that I love when activated generators DO something. Opening the large sliding doors on Gideon, opening the trapdoors on the gallows on Dead Dawg, opening the gate beneath the main building in Temple of Purgation, and opening the sliding portcullises on Grim Pantry are all top tier map design. I’d be very interested in more of that.
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My comment asploded when I tried to edit it, but there are 7 window vaults. One at the top of the meat tube, one in the freeze, one in the room above the bathroom, one by an exit gate (pretty rarely used), a TL wall has 2 in one of the corners that swaps positions with a staircase, and another one in a pallet gym that can spawn on one of the edges
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@Kaitri said:
it depends on the killer honestly. if you play someone like pig, yeah you might aswell surrender. if you play any killer who doesnt care much about pallets (demo or blight id highlight here) then noone really cares.
the map having just 1 window is a bit sad.
yeah it technically has the vault thats upstairs going down, but i dont count that one
There are actually 4 guaranteed windows. One at the top of the meat tube, one in the freezer, one in the room above the bathroom, and an often unused one by one of the exit gates. There’s also a TL wall that can spawn downstairs for 2 more windows, and sometimes pallet gyms that have 1.
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I like the map but it can be a bit buggy with prop spawns and hooks in tight corridors
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Other than that 3gen behind the gallows, I like this map a lot. The area behind the main building is pretty barren, I think you could move a gen from the 3gen and put it by the outhouse to lessen the grip killers have given the size of the map
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I'd rather just go back to the old version before it was buffed
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I like Sadako, Nemmy, Pinhead, Hux, and Alien. Nemmy feels very balanced. Side objectives on the others are solid and make me feel like I can DO something.
I think I would like Skull Merchant if disabling her drones felt more effective.
Trapper and Hag side objectives are fine but I prefer to face them when their player is playing them as antiloop rather than basement campy.
I hate Clown and Huntress. They make me feel essentially helpless, Clown in particular. Legion is annoying as a mending simulator but ultimately not super threatening otherwise. I’m not big on stealth killers. As a whole they just make me stressed in the same way that flashlight players do when I play killer.
Everyone else is kind of in the middle
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Just spitballing here, but what if instead of repairing 15 charges, it reduces the total amount of charges needed to repair a gen?
I've seen that one thrown around a lot and I like it a lot. A permanent downside warrants a permanent upside imo
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Probably Clown. He has very little counterplay and you basically always get hit in chase with little you could have done about it. He's like Pinhead chains except you can't dodge and can't break out of it, or Like Freddy but you can't walk around the bottles or wake up like you can for blood pools.
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He sometimes causes crashes when hooking survivors, and when survivors use Plot Twist while holding the box, it's treated as the box being solved and doesn't start a Chain Hunt
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I don't know if BHVR is going to hear us here if they're closing our bug reports, so feel free to share your experiences down below and maybe we can get some traction and attention
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I should note, in that above post I made, I was playing Pinhead too. It's happened 3 times, and I've changed nothing on my end. It only started after this patch.
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I should note, I was playing Pinhead, and it looks like it has happened to at least 1 other person
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I believe in their current iteration, survivors need to be able to boon more than 1 totem at a time to get larger coverage. Especially putting them in areas the killer doesn’t have a lot of interest in revisiting, making places with completed gens much stronger and less likely to get snuffed. That’s a lot of time waste though, but at least then the “only 24 meters” could be counteracted a bit by having a few of the aura bubbles
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In soloqueue, Bond and Kindred
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40% sounds about right, yeah. I think a bit under 50% of the games we finish all gens, a bit under that, we get the doors, open, and a bit under that, I get out, so it seems right to me.
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If they hide the glyph in the basement, that seems like a fair risk/reward for it imo.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489309#Comment_3489309
You think that Overcharge is an easy skill check?
hahahahahahaha
I do and I’m tired of pretending it’s not. After the first time, you know it’s coming, and it’s bigger than the great skillcheck zone. Killer has to travel to the gen and kick the gen to reapply it every time. I’d say this is more a problem with forceable 3gens from the start of the game.
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Yeah, that's why I said it should probably come with some changes so killers don't feel they HAVE to tunnel. When I play survivor, I'd love some side objectives to do so I'm not always on gens. Something else to help escape would be nice, and time spent on that wouldn't be spent on gens. But that's probably a thread of its own.
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I mean ostensibly so did Hangman's Trick, I just think they can do better
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Sorry, I didn't remember literally every single perk :( Pharmacy I'd give its own special limited item (similar to Flashbang) that works like its own semi-speedy selfheal medkit so it's not even slower than Self-Care. Probably wouldn't be able to get Ace in the Hole addons, but might be like, 8-10 seconds to use on self to cut down on total time spent searching for chest, opening chest, and then using medkit.
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I believe that's intended
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At 6-7 hooks left I wouldn't really call it tunneling
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@Viktor1853 said:
What if the focused player try to body block or try to take a hit?
I suppose they'd just lose collision at that point. They really ought not to be putting themselves in harm's way x)
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Pinhead is (kind of) a glorified M1 killer, he's not that hard to bully sadly. Anyone with comms can handle him without too much trouble
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That mostly just seems like worse Iron Will. I think being in a locker already muffles your sound some, so Iron Will alone is usually enough in my experience.
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They’re in anonymous mode
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I mean yeah but I still think this would be good QoL for survivors and make baby survivors less clueless about his mechanics
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401565#Comment_3401565
If it was a rummage perk, you'd be able to open a chest, leave it, then come back later to rummage through for a medkit when you needed it.
I don't think DE is able to make any more "guaranteed item" rummages after Residual Manifest. If you're guaranteed both a flashlight AND a medkit it's not really a guarantee anymore, is it? Appraisal still works though since the item you'd get is random
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I think Pharmacy needs its own limited item like Flashbangs. Adrenaline shots that have a short use time and instantly heal you or the person you use them on, but exhaust you. That'd probably be worth using, and not too much more annoying that styptics/syringes, and as limited as there are chests on the map. Much like inner healing and totems, you'd still have to worry about others using them first.
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I think you'd have to either rework Franklin's for that or make them non-items like Sadako's video tapes. Problem is, Sprays, Vaccines, and THE BOX all have interact buttons that would clash with your normal items so I'm not sure that's possible.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394618#Comment_3394618
You do realize that very few people continue to regularly log in to play killer right?
If there is no viable gen regression then what happens if a big chunk of killers like me who have been here since the beginning just stop playing.
It would be one thing if they said : oh by the way all gen rush perks are getting the same nerf as CoB/OC with a 70% reduction in effect AND toolboxes are now sabotage only AND we made all the healing slow.
What is going to stop the gen rush? There's literally nothing viable left and the devs have done nothing to stop the ~40 second generator repair rush with Hyperfocus.
We know there is a massive imbalance of survivor to killer ratio thanks to the BP bonuses. We know it was the same before the 6.1 meta shake up that was supposed to make more people want to play killer. We actually have leaked data from people pinging the DBD servers where in some cases we had 45 killers or fewer in queue with 4500 survivors.
Killer has always been kept one step away from being miserable. But they can't just destroy every viable gen regression perk if they want people to keep playing killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394623#Comment_3394623
-"Why do people keep saying Eruption is dead?"
Because it went to 10% reduction and the survivors could immediately start working on the generator again. Previously it lost 10% immediately and then it would lose another 20% while that player could not work on it.
When you look at player usage for Eruption it's down in the 6% range but it was supposed to become meta - oops they missed the mark.
-"you just have to be playing a killer that can cycle between those gens"
If DBD is moving to the point where only Blight and Nurse are viable then I'm out.
I was barely hanging on playing older killers. I was still having fun vs most of the 5000-10000 hour survivors I played against as "weaker" killers with the limited regression we had left.
Ok hold on, old Eruption was stupid, it was basically Killer Deadhard (which is also stupid)
The counterplay is "predict when the perk is in play and about to happen to avoid it by stopping doing your objectives". It's a perk that had counterplay that felt bad, like Spine Chill and Pain Res/DMS combo. I do not want that back.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5_qpf22S2U
So, the timing on totems is pretty tight. Something like Resilience can overcome it without too much issue, which is way better than Calm Spirit. Alternatively, so long as they don’t bring Haunted Ground, removing a dull totem IS possible and will bring Thrill of the Hunt down enough to make cleansing hexes possible.
Oh, also, OP didn’t mention it, but you can use this combo on Pig too since you can make Jigsaw Box solve time like 16 seconds with gear addons and Pig can go undetectable to get people out of her terror radius so you might not need Retribution if you’re trying to force a headpop
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272974#Comment_3272974
Thats why you solve the box before chain hunt lol
Oh yeah, for sure, highly recommend doing that if you’re able. Doesn’t work great if Cenobite finds the box first and forces it to start but other than that, if you ONLY have to deal with the 25 second scream window, it becomes much more manageable. It’s when the two overlap that it’s a problem
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272818#Comment_3272818
Regarding point 2... are you looking at your numbers? At max, box takes 9 seconds... Survivors scream every 25 seconds.
I don't understand, what is the problem with this?
EDIT: Although, with everything else here, I'm pretty sure Face the Darkness will be nerfed tbh. It's pretty obvious what the problem is. But who knows? It's BHVR. They might take a year. :)
It’s harder than it sounds once chain hunt is active. You need a moment where neither a scream or a volley of chains will interrupt you. If you last screamed, say, 10 seconds ago, then pick up the box, you have to dodge a wave of chains, start solving, and finish in 15 seconds before you scream again. If you don’t, you scream, have to wait out another wave of chains, and Pinhead knows you’re trying to solve and come stop you and start another chain hunt. Getting the timing right isn’t as easy if you’re forced to wait between screams for a big enough window
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You can’t tell them it’s broken without telling them why
Thrill of the Hunt and Retribution make you oblivious and therefore not in terror radius so you scream and can’t cleanse Face the Darkness or any other hex Totems because they’re 24 (?) seconds with screams every 25 seconds (plus the small interrupt period on the scream)
The person holding the box can never solve it because they’re oblivious so they scream every 25 seconds, and they have to dodge a round of chains, and with addons the box takes 9 seconds to solve.
Sloppy Butcher makes it difficult to heal the person keeping the hex active because survivors will scream and Hemorrhage will undo the heal progress during the scream. Then Cenobite can come to the loud noise notification and stop you from finishing it
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Cenobite uses Face the Darkness best. You’re oblivious while holding the box, so you’re never considered in terror radius, so you have to contend with chains AND screams interrupting Lament Configuration solving. Throw in Liquified Gore and Larry’s Remains to put solve time at 9 seconds and the window for doing so without getting interrupted gets pretty tight. Throw in Thrill of the Hunt and Retribution and you’re also not in terror radius while doing totems and hexes are 24 seconds to cleanse while you scream every 25 seconds. Toss on Sloppy and screaming will interrupt healing on the person keeping the hex up, making them regress heal progress and letting you go interrupt it.
No gen regression but that’s the best use of the perk I can think of
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You can grab them out of the locker, carry them away from lockers, drop and pick back up until they auto wiggle out, then mori once they're standing again. Best results with PWF so you can catch up from the stun
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I do like this but I feel like it should be a bit picky about what killer instincts it blocks rather than just all of them. Cenobite's is kind of unique looking and very important to him. Legion's is also important for them chaining hits to keep people injured. Ghostface, Nemesis, Twins, and Artist are kinda just bonus but not required for them to function. Sadako I feel almost never happens so I think she should keep hers. Pyramid Head, Demogorgon, and Dredge (mostly the latter two) are kind of somewhere in between where they're very useful to their killers but they don't cease to work without them.
Also, with Lightweight and Distortion getting buffed, people might be getting pretty hard to track if you can't track them by scratch marks, auras, crows, screams, or killer instincts. What else is there? Sound and just straight up seeing them, I guess. For sure though, they need to remove the slowdown from this perk or no one will ever use it again. I didn't hate it how it was, even, but I don't mind quieter totems and chests, though they don't seem to fit as much as hiding your "heartbeat" for killer instinct.
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@JackOfTrades said:
Just a question that I don't know if I'm allowed to post or not...but what's Sadako like as a killer? You put her in the bottom tier (I think, but please correct me if I am wrong), and I don't own her DLC, so.
She's like Wraith but worse. Her teleports don't make up for it and her mori rarely comes up against competent survivors
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I might like the game to allow me to prefer killers I enjoy facing, or block killers that make me miserable, yeah.
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I might be ok with SWF IF there was also a KILL with friends. 8 survivors (all in varying numbers of groups, like, say, 3/3/2 or 4/4 or 2/2/2/2) play against 2 killers. Solo survivors always get matched with solo killers, SWF always get matched with KWF. All 8 survivors won't be coordinated but they'll still have a leg up in coordination, 2 killers have more gens than usual to defend and get a bit extra time due to all the spread out pressure. Can the game/servers handle it? Probably not, but I don't believe there is a fairer solution.
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Naturally, if you have 2 people finish working on 1 gen, and then they go to another gen to do the same thing, they've spent 47 seconds each, twice, for a total of 188 seconds of survivor time. So in that situation, it's better for them to separately spend 80 seconds each for a total of 160 seconds. But, it's pretty likely one of them will be interrupted. So it's a trade off.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028991#Comment_3028991
The things you learn after 1411 hours.
That's incredibly bad design though, the game rewards with more bloodpoints actions that make it more difficult to win. It doesn't even make sense from a game design perspective to punish players from doing the same thing, but together.
The Opposite would actually make more sense, repairing gens should be FASTER when working together, not slower. (Not necessarily faster than current numbers, but faster relatively to working solo)
You're already at an advantage when repairing separately, basically the game tells you that if you want to win, you should be solo on a gen, but you will lose a lot of BloodPoints in the process. (since you need to solo 5 gens entirely to get 8k objectives BPs)
It's *sort of* faster. Pressuring multiple gens is obviously very good, but sometimes you need to speed through a gen while the killer is occupied before their attention turns back to patrolling, like if you get 3gen'd or something. I think BHVR's thinking is that if gens can be done in 20 seconds with 4 survivors working on them, that gives the killer very little time to interrupt if the survivors are coordinated. Generally, gens where you CAN work on all 4 sides are somewhat rare. 2 or 3 sides with the intent of only 1 or 2 being used at a time (gives room for survivors to shuffle about to avoid detection) seems to be their goal.