Spudbar
Spudbar
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@Mediva said:
But you just dont get enough points in 3 categories not to depip with a killer camping without trying to free someone. And unless the developers rework points for survivors so they too can actually get points in 4 categories during the match, Camping will always stay.
Because killers know that survivors simpy dont have a choice then to go in, so they can wait. The 4k will be there do matter what.
Doing gens and escaping is a viable strategy that often results in at least 2-3 people escaping. It's not that Survivors don't have a choice - they just don't like the choices they're given. The best choice (not to reward or play into camping) results in a so-so BP gain and probably not gaining rank. It also just isn't fun.
So, they run up to the hook, fail, give the Killer a 4K - not because the strategy is strong but because they're directly rewarding it - and so Killers will continue to camp not only because the mechanics define it as an effective strategy, but because Survivors are stubborn and keep allowing it to be effective.
IMO the ranking system does need an overhaul to properly reflect performance, instead of just being a pat on the back for doing enough things. Though that's outside the scope of this thread I feel.
My point is, camping isn't effective if properly countered - the true problem is that it just makes the match turn sour for everyone. The devs keep trying to add mechanics to reinforce the idea that "camping/tunneling = bad". Those haven't worked for the past year, they're not going to work now. They need to find a new angle. That would be something along the lines of "many chases = good".
Like for my idea of the Crippled affliction, people are being given a reward for playing opposite of the camping/tunneling playstyles. But, if they decide to play those ways anyway - the punishment is already inherent. They're not gaining any benefits from the system.
Instead of trying to just eliminate camping and tunneling from the game (which is bad because you are not only eliminating options, but also because there is such a huge risk of having abusive systems which punish the wrong people), the devs just need to create a system which makes people not want to in the first place. Make the opposite behavior beneficial for themselves, more rewarding and more effective. Afterward, if they really want to, they can try to create systems that do directly punish camping - but they need to be careful.
@Kind_Lemon said:
@Spudbar, Your insight into the problem is excellent and well thought out, but I disagree with your implementation of solutions.The only flaw in your post is that you don’t mention increased ways for survivors to escape a chase rather than elingating a chase. This is another major issue I see in game design. These two issues should be looked at in conjunction if the game is to be better balanced.
This is certainly one of the biggest issues in DbD currently and I have my own opinions on it. But this thread is not about chases, just camping/tunneling. Why the devs current mentality does not work and a better direction for them to take.
That's really the scope of this discussion and this was never meant to be a cure-all solution to DbD's problems - in fact it was only meant to offer a solution to this very specific problem and to make sure it cannot have adverse effects on the rest of the game.
ATM I am convinced my own personal idea should not break anything if properly implemented. Especially not for current the chase/evasion system or any future changes made to it. I'm not saying it's the best idea, it may have flaws I haven't considered. It's more of an example however for the direction I think the devs should be going when considering "How do we stop camping/tunneling?"
The chase/evasion gameplay certainly needs adjustments but I think that's better as it's own individual topic.
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
You confuse a few terms here.
Camping means that the killer stays in front of the hook (leatherface reving chainsaw) and that the survivor cant be rescued.Camping and tunneling are terms that often end up blurring together. They also have a similar purpose; focusing one person down (though sometimes they are done for different reasons). I mention both in the same context because I think these solutions apply equally to both playstyles.
If it's better to chase new people, you won't stick around the hook. If it's better to chase new people, you won't go back just to down the same guy again.
I really do hope people don't push against it because "it's a Killer buff". They're just shooting themselves in the foot. That's the kind of mentality where someone wants everything, so they get nothing.
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@only1biggs said:
While I agree with some of what you said...nobody said anything about "slug builds", just that it was viable. See Zubat.Ah yeah, didn't really mean full-on slug builds, not sure why I typed that. Regardless, slugging as a strategy is not super effective until someone is actually dead.
You stop one person from doing gens until they recover, then they use Unbreakabill or wait for someone to rescue them. In the meantime you maybe chase someone else and break a few pallets in the meantime. All the while, 1 person will remain uninterrupted doing their generators. You make insignificant progress toward your goal because you broke some pallets, meanwhile the Survivors were really only inconvenienced.
I mean, slugging may work against disorganized/weak Survivors... But when it comes to optimal Survivors following the "script" it's not very effective outside of Nurse and is actually counterable by Unbreakabill, in which case it actually hurts you more than it helps.
The best you can do otherwise is slug temporarily to hit someone you believe is close by. If they are dumb maybe you can commit to downing them, but again if we're talking about good players versus something that isn't Nurse, that's not going to happen.
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In my opinion in the current state of the game you could give every Killer permanent wallhacks (aside from maybe when you chase someone; it'd make mindgames hella easy) and unless they play Nurse, you can still win most of your games.
I think BBQ is fine in the current state of the game. If it became more stealth oriented then maybe it'd be worth talking about. But for now, the Killer knowing where you are for a couple seconds does not impede at all on the winning strat of doing gens and looping.
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@Runiver said:
Seems like BMin' is part of the tradition in this game.They should bring back the old Wraith bell spam. The game has never been the same since it was removed.
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This is why Nurse is the only true viable Killer. Dead by Daylight is a "scripted" game. A majority of pallets are safe (absolutely must be broken and cannot be mindgamed), waste a lot of time, and generators take little time to be completed, too much so in comparison to how long chases last. As such all it takes to win a vast majority of games is to do gens if you aren't chased, and loop if you are. Even playing safe and just dropping pallets when you are at risk of taking hits, without getting stuns or anything, is enough to secure a victory. That is the "script" of the DbD.
Any Killer that cannot break the script of looping and doing gens stands no chance against competent Survivors. Most that do still have drawbacks that may end up hurting them more than it will ever help them (Trapper wastes time setting up, Shape wastes time stalking, etc.), or are too inconsistent in their ability to be truly effective (Doctor cannot cancel most loops, Huntress has slow windups and hitbox issues, etc.).
Not even Ruin will save you against good Survivors because the skillcheck is not that hard to hit. It is not really a "skill"check but more of a V-Sync-check. It tests to see if you went into the config files and turned off V-Sync. If you did, you can hit it consistently with a bit of practice.
Nurse is the only Killer who can consistently break the script of the game and it is sad. You can try different strategies on other Killers, builds, sure... You may get somewhere with insta-windup Huntress for instance. But Survivors always have the ability to adapt. Like with the talk I see about slug builds. Easy solution: Unbreakabill. Slugging is now more useless than it was before, and it already was not an effective strategy. Unless you play Nurse, of course.