Siachi
Siachi
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I suspect you're just trolling. And I would genuinely suggest you actually try playing killer for a while, knowing how they work/think can be a big benefit to your Survivor gameplay. I'm doing the same by playing more Survivor myself so I can understand them better as Killer. But I'm just going to say my piece, dump this wall of text that I can't help myself from making because I like info dumping too much, and ignore this thread afterwards.
No, the wiggle progress is not meant to a last chance to get away. It's just there to make it so the killer can't carry you around the map forever taking you out of the game entirely, or to make it so they HAVE to hook you at a maybe unideal hook location, as opposed to a Scourge or easily defendable Basement hook. If they changed it so that is was just a flat timer, no wiggle or input on the survivor's part needed, and when it ran out, the Entity itself would knock the survivor out of their arms, it would serve the exact same purpose.
And yes, if you make it difficult to impossible to make a hook, the objectively correct move is to start slugging, no 'protest' or 'spoon feeding' about it. Killers are players too, and like most players, they generally like to win their games, just like survivor players like winning theirs. If you sabotage right in front of them when they're about to hook, the killer isn't just going to go "Well gosh darn it, I have been so thoroughly outplayed by you having a toolbox/perk, guess I've got to let all that pressure I put in the chase go to waste and let them go scott free". They are going to drop the guy they were holding and start chasing the saboteur, so they can still apply some some amount of pressure on the survivors. It makes it so at least one of the other two survivors needs to stop doing gens in order to help the dropped survivor, and maybe even recover the guy who is being chased if they get downed too (Hooked or slugged).
Now, in your example of "Big hook deadzones so killers need to think about where they get down survivors". Uhh, Killers don't really have much of a choice on where they down survivors? Where the chase leads is almost ENTIRELY at the survivor's choice, and that is a genuine strategy for them, trying to lead the killer away from other survivors/generators to take some pressure off of those objectives. Now a killer can try to force the survivor in a certain direction, but it is still ultimately the Killer on the heels of the Survivor. If a Killer really wanted to down a survivor on the west side of the map, but the Survivor takes off to the east, there's not a damn thing the killer can do about it.
Making a big dead zone for hooks where any survivor can end up in "Home Free" space, where the killer can't hook them in anyway, then no one's going to want to play that. No strategy for Survivors on navigating the map, how to draw out the chase as long as possible to give your teammates time, knowing how to loop effectively. Just "Oh I've spotted the killer in the distance, I'm going to hide in Home Free for a bit until they either give up and leave, or try and fail to hook me because I KNOW they can't from Home Free".
We get it, you think killers are just AI video game monsters that you should be able to win against all the time, with as many second chances and cheese strategies as the devs will give you, but that ain't this game. It's another player on the other end who wants to win their game just as bad as you do. The game NEEDS to be balanced
(whether it currently is or not)such that both sides have a fair shot at winning. Designing the game so that it's as difficult as possible for one side to achieve their objective, while the other side has an easy time with theirs, will kill the game outright because no one wants to be the whipping boy that HAS to lose so someone else can feel good about themselves.Here's another possible comparison for you: Imagine if when you finish a generator, instead of it just being complete and that's that, you have to slowly drag that generator to the Exit gate for it to actually count, and if the killer catches you while you're doing that, then the generator is put back where it spawned, and you lose 50-70% progress on that generator and have to start all over again. ######### sucks right?
Seriously, play as a killer more. And not just one or two games, play a lot. Play until you start facing Survive With Friends groups, and P100 Solo Queue veterans, and see just how much an even slightly coordinated group of Survivors can get done vs a killer trying their absolute hardest to win. And note how it was even WORSE in the early days of the game (which admittedly I wasn't there for but I've heard the horror stories), with insta-blind flashlights, Brand New Parts taking generators from 0-to-100, genuinely infinite loops that the Killers COULD NEVER catch up to, Sabotages permanently removing hooks from the map. If we had today's experienced Survivors, with any one of those mechanics from back then much less all of them, the game would be dead in a matter of hours. -
I've got a few other builds I've worked on since I put up the original post. I'm not quite as settled on them, so I'd definitely appreciate more feedback if you don't mind. (These are going to be a lot longer than the ones in the main post, I'm doing a lot more explaining of my reasoning)
WRAITH: [Human Greed - Hex: Ruin - Hex: Third Seal - Hex: Pentimento]-Wraith was tricky to start with, and I feel like I'm stretching some of my choices. Human Greed Because his life experience has him utterly despise "Men who kill for money", though I feel like there should be a better option in punishing "greedy" survivors (Franklin's maybe?). Beyond that, Philip's life is just kind of cursed, where people die because of him, even if he didn't mean for it to happen (Accidentally letting mercenaries sneak into his village, and the victims of the car crusher). Hex Ruin was the closest I could get to representing this (Since there's not an "accidentally injure survivors" perk, the perk that sets them back and damages machinery without you actively doing anything). Hex Third Seal refers to his Tome Story "Algebra of Infinite Night", and the phrase used to try to convince Philip to let go of his anger ("An eye for an eye makes the world blind and plunges it into infinite night"), and how that doesn't work out for him. And lastly, Hex Pentimento is a stretch, but it's meant to refer to how he moved to America to try to rebuild his life, and move on from his past, but just ended up turning into an unwitting executioner: Trading one tragedy for another.
CENOBITE: [Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance - Trail of Torment - Hex: Two Can Play]
-I don't know much about Hellraiser, but I'm pretty sure Cenobites like Pain, Pain, Tormenting Pain, and the giving and recieving of pain. I wanted to use Two Can Play specifically, because I think out of all killers, Pinhead would be the one that'd actually appreciate getting a pallet dropped on him. In a sort of "Thank you for giving me this sensation, now let me share one with you" kind of way. That being said, I don't know enough about Hellraiser to say if this would make a good build for the character.TRICKSTER: [Lightborn - Ultimate Weapon - Hex: Face the Darkness - Bamboozle]
-Another one where I don't know the character super well, so if I'm on the wrong track feel free to call me out, but I feel like I may at least have a good idea in mind. Lightborn is a must; Trickster was on stage all the time, and I'd imagine that Flashlights and Flash Bangs would be no different than stage lights and camera flashes for him. For Ultimate Weapon and Face the Darkness, Trickster was enamored with screams, and would torture his victims to hear their screams and mix them into his music. The names don't fit very well, but I think the effects are something to consider: Ultimate Weapon making nearby survivors scream after opening a locker to me says "He is now prepared, and his 'audience' awaits", while Face the Darkness targeting survivors outside of Trickster's terror radius, in a way he's punishing them for "Not giving him attention". And Bamboozle, it's not 'bad' on him, there probably could be better, but he would be more agile than most killers, and he would trap his victims to keep them from escaping. Plus the name of the perk literally means "To trick someone".SPIRIT: [Hubris - Rapid Brutality - Whispers - (…) ]
-Yeah I'm having a hard time settling on a fourth perk for her at the moment. Overall, I want to focus more on her Anger, especially compared to her ancestor's. Kazan's anger was a very constant, all deep seated thing with long held grudges at any slight against him, whereas Rin's anger is more explosive; it boils below the surface mostly unseen, and comes out all at once. From there is where I decided to go with Hubris (The window of Exposure it applies feels more like a sudden, extreme lashing out, compared to Oni's Nemesis) and Rapid Brutality. Whispers, even though I think I'm starting to overuse the perk, fits with Rin's story a lot, as it was the Entity's whispers that drove her father to madness, and later those same Whispers would make an offer to Rin when she was chosen to be the killer instead. And like I said, having a hard time settling on a final perk. Basically BHVR needs to make more "Angry" or "Revenge" perks, we've only got like 4-5, and we have alot of killers motivated by their anger.BLIGHT: [Agitation - Whispers - Endurance - Dark Arrogance]
-Blight is very much in the "work in progress" phase, but I figured I'd share what I have to get some second opinions. The theme I wanted to go with, was to emphasize Talbot's addiction to the Pustula Flower, and how he's degraded into little more than a starving beast, willing to do ANYTHING for his "fix". Agitation is the main one I'm sold on for the moment: Talbot wants his fix ASAP, and he has been told he can get more Flowers from killing survivors. On that note, Whispers is another one I'm mostly sold on, but could be convinced to replace with something else: Talbot's story has him directly hearing the Entity inviting him into the realm, and later instructing Talbot to kill in order to get more flowers, so he is directly being egged on to kill.-The other two perks need some explaining, and I'm not super sold on them at the moment. For Enduring, I figured in Talbot's addicted state, he'd be shrugging off pain much more than other killers in his mad rush to get more 'flowers', and not to mention in the past he worked on Poppy and Opioids, known for their painkilling properties (I don't know if the Pustula serum has that effect or not, however). That being said, I usually reserve Enduring for characters with supernatural levels of endurance like Pyramid Head or Nemesis. Dark Arrogance is kind of my compromise there, having him be more enduring-but-not-as-much, plus the added bonus of the increase vault speed (Again, he's become more animalistic in his addicted state), and making him more vulnerable to light (Which I think can be a sign of drug addiction or withdrawal. If nothing else it again makes him more animalistic). Like I said, those last two I'm still not sold on, at the moment
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@P0rshulz said:
This may just be me but for Ghosty, I feel it makes sense to replace Agi for Hex : Friends 'Til The End. He stalks his targets and knows where they are always, it may seem redundant on an insta-down killer but for lore accurate perks, this feels right.
Also, I feel that for Legion, I feel STBFL would be good, showing their enthusiasm I guess you could see, getting more excited and speeding up with each hit, that may not be universal but that's my feedback, everything else I think you hit the nail on the head.
Thanks so much for the feedback! I haven't updated a lot of these particular builds recently, but I did change up Ghost Face's, replacing Agitation for Lethal Pursuer. I figured it would fit him for the same reasoning I used behind Zanshin Tactics. He would stalk his targets, learn their routines, habits, schedules, everything, so it would make sense that, if he's casing the place ahead of time for Zanshin's effect, he would also know exactly where the survivors start the trial at, and maybe from knowing their habits, have a better time at tracking them (even though I only have exactly one other aura reveal in Zanshin's pallet drop reveal).
I think that's a pretty solid reason for Legion! Like I said, they mostly have agility and manic energy going for them, and they already get a speed boost from Frenzy slashes, so getting the extra attack speed as well (even after the "rush" of the Feral Frenzy has worn off) makes a lot of sense to me. EDIT: Although apparently you don't get stacks from Feral Frenzy slashes. Still may be worth considering for the lore/thematic, even if it'd be clunky gameplay wise
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Killer wise, Dredge is probably my favorite (feels like his kit has a bit of everything I could want in one, and I’m attached to the screaming build I have for him) followed by Unknown and lately Singularity. Though admittedly it does change up depending on the day (gravitating towards Wraith and Nemesis recently because of 2v8)
Survivor I don’t play as much, but I think Gabriel is my favorite of the non-licensed survivors. Cheryl and Haddie are other favorites for when I do play survivor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Good Lore build you have. If you're not concerned with synergy but just lore then I'd swap out Friends til the End for Infectious Fright or MindBreaker. Shadowborn would also make a lot of sense based on the perks description.
Thanks for the feedback! I do feel like I'm kind of stretching it with FttE, but I justify it in the sense of the new Obsession basically doing the "and then he's gonna kill me! Oh my gooood!" meme. I really do wish it had a different name though.
And to be honest, I just can't bring myself to include Shadowborn, even if Dredge is literally born from shadows. Its actual mechanic just doesn't fit the idea of "you are a creature of darkness" enough.
If you don't mind me asking while you're here, would you have any suggestions for a Singularity Lore build? I'm pretty settled on Batteries Included (Because, well, he does have a battery, the description of "Being somewhere between man and machine", and mechanically it's like he's siphoning power off of completed gens for his own ends), but I'm pretty indecisive on the other perks.
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I've got another build I'd like to hear some opinions on, especially because I don't know the character as well.
Oni: [Hubris, Thrilling Tremors, Dead Man's Switch, Hex: Ruin]
So Kazan's whole deal is that he hates "False Samurai" with a murderous passion. But I imagine that if a Peasant knows their place, he would be indifferent to them, so that's what this build is, but you HAVE to change up your gameplan a bit: If a Survivor is working on a generator, you DO NOT attack them. The Survivors are "Peasants" who need to toil at the generators, so as long as they are working, you have no cause to attack them. You go on patrol and check on them to make sure they are working, and if they "Shirk their duties" by running when they see you, that's when you chase them down.
Now, if you see a "Peasant" wandering about, you should give them some leeway: They could be on their way to the next generator, and may be in need of an escort. But naturally, if it's clear that they're not moving to a Generator, then yes, they must be punished.
Now of course, if they catch on to what you're doing, that Survivors is 100% going to get away, but let's be honest, staying put at a generator when the killer gets near is not what any Survivor is going to do on a first instinct, so I'm sure most games are going to be indistinguishable from a regular match, but now you have motivation when you're putting those disgraceful, slacking peasants on hooks.