Nahasno
Nahasno
About
- Username
- Nahasno
- Joined
- Visits
- 37
- Last Active
Comments
-
@MythicMikeneto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3431524#Comment_3431524
In the recent Ask Me Anything the Devs revealed that active outpost exposure is/was currenty prioritzed to a set number of raid,, and will soon be/is now a set number of kills. Once reached the outpost lowers in the queue to give exposure to other outposts. They also spcifically called out that 'player agency' if a factor as well in outpost exposure/getting raids.
Asking for a outpost not to have a timer would mean they need to remove the gen mat gain from active outposts. I dont see them doing that anytime soon.
It is unfortunate the game's core design does not appeal to you. I wish it appealed to everyone, but it just doesnt.
Then they have to tweak that number a lot - at the moment it seems to be like this:
As soon as your Outpost has enough prestige to rank up the activity drops massively
good outposts have the needed number of kills for the next rank up and then the rest time of that genmat cycle is dead time. That's about 1-20 raids depending on the killratio of said outpost which you often get in 1-2 hours after activation and then there is nothing for the rest of the time, not because nobody likes it but because of an implemented hardcoded (LOW) number? Are you kidding me?! do they even know in which direction they want to develope the game???
Sry but that change makes absolutely no sense in reference to their stated intetions for the game, if that number would be in the hundrets that would make sense or just make the lifetime cycle smaller - why run an outpost for 12-24 hours when it get's only seen effectively for 1-2 hours?!?
-
@MadMoeZel said:
i'm in general opposed to things related to teleportation, it will almost always be used in a manner by the builder that will lead to more lethality because its the only way builders are rewarded in any way that affects progression positively. teleporters by nature need to be immune if they are part of the path to genmat otherwise they could be disabled by bomb traps, dead mans switch, bolt shots, etc. without it there is a risk of getting trapped in a box with them and having the teleporter destroyed behind you creating soft lock.
all for illusion, advocated for a raider hologram than can be thrown to trigger traps and guards to gather information.
would love enviornmental hazards, i have posts for oil and sludge.
levers/plates/wires/switches are something we've been asking for but have yet to receive.
There is a possibility at the moment to build a switch in the game a "hidden bolthrower hits holocube" combo but it's usage is very limited and in most cases maybe a waste of cap-points. Maybe if the holocubes would not be destroyed when a player bolt hits them but just pass through it would get more functionality but. Then there is the problem of balance. Would it affect the balance to much if the cubes would only get destroyed by activation and in any other case just let the player projectiles pass?
-
Doesn't the incinerator have such a mod it's not 180° but there is that fire and explode mod - of course it makes the flamer ontime use, but i think it would be to difficult if they could fire repetitve with such a mod.
It would like to see some traps with
- electricty - perhaps to stun raiders
- water jets that push or shove raiders maybe in combo with electricity get deadly? We can pull so why not shove
- sliding doors - just to prevent raiders from seeing in the next room - they don't even have to able to be locked. Or if locked - then give raiders a tool with which they can crack the lock in 1-2 secs.
- elevators or something would be nice too, even if hrv can't path over them, guards could be placed on them and make hitting them more difficult if the move constantly up and down.
-
@CcPicci said:
I don't know if those two addition can be implemented or not due to some reason, but It would be cool if HRV could use some platform to move on up and down, left or right. I Imagine this like a platform used only by HRV, maybe activated with a tool and a proper animation. The platform moves slowly, it connects multi level paths to follow, without breaking any level rule.
I Imagine Teleport used by Raiders, to connect multi leveled spaces, adding more variety to map solutions. Useful for secreta area and challenging rooms. A Teleport mod could Teleport also trap projectiles.. even if I think Is hard to implement.
Well the teleport optionwould be nice but is difficult and why should only raiders be able to use them?
If guardmobs could use them to that would be niffty of course the trap/block would have to be designed in a way that defines the usage to a narrow margin.
What i would prefer is an option for builders to change the placement of the genmat and or tombs at the start of the map sometimes the genmat is positioned that the hrv- pathing is very difficult if you don't want it to be just a straight line.
-
I reactivated a big brutal from before the last patches it was a Rank 3 and i couldn't get enough raids/kills to rank it up further before the changes in the prestige system...
So I made a "Dragon" a toothy maw - where you enter and are greeted by six flamers then you go on and come to the "belly" where there is a killbox room.
Interestingly enough today it's got mastered but....
First you can see that head on the thumb but many people joinend and got annoyed by the 6 flamers in the entrance which you can acutally bypass by just jumping down the "gullet".
- It's a fu.... Dragon it has to spit fire!
- It's a big BRUTAL don't join those for the EASY grind
- More than half the people who cleared it gave accolades
But it still only got one "raid boost" (3-10 Raids) in one genmat cycle in 18!! hours mostly 1-2 hours after activation then nothing and i tried both raiding much and not raiding... it did'nt make a difference. The same for small and medium outposts this is the reason for the dearth on non-xp outposts. AND sry i wont raid x times to just hold my outposts in rotation and get overall less raids back.
There is literally not enough destinction between casual and "pro" gaming, the difficulty setting as it is, is a joke.
And the rewards are too, because there is no difference between the outposts sizes in a difficultybracket. Why should i join a big map which can have 10-30 min clear time, if i can join a small map with 1-10 min clear time and i get the same rewards for both? The crypts don't make a diffrence because in the time i play one big map, i can play 2-3 small maps so the amount of mats by tombs are the same.
There are players out there that would give a small outpost in normal a "brutal" accolade, because - yeah there are three warmongers in a one tile wide corridor, which will come at you.
Others see such a setup as artistic, fun and ingenius while another one would find it boring and give no accolades.
Instead of the botchy accolade system just make it possible for the builder to see how many possible raiders the outpost could have had. By just counting the number of times in pops up in anyones raidselection. Then at least we would have a measurement how many possible raids the outpost has "lost".
If you think about it it's actually normal player behavior and i don't get why a company with the word in the name doesn't get that.
If you make a level (in this case the outposts) based game and give it three difficulty settings with a very wide definition of each setting. AND then give the players additionally the option to skip levels without penalty, at least 90% of the playerbase will tend to "try&skip" play through the game which will cause that many maps are played only marginally by a large percentage of the playerbase.
Then there is the problem that number the building options in this game are relatively small which leads to repetive outpost design. Just the fact that you can't build on all sides of a halftile block and all building elements have straight lines curbs the amount of possible designs very much. Then there is the fact that you have only so many traps and only very few of them have unlimited ammo. So there are traps combinations that make sense (like stomper/flamer) and some that do not make so much sense like bolthrower/stomper frist because the bolter can only max shootr twice and the bolts can damge the stomper trap while the flamer can fire till it's destroyed and doesn't harm the stomper. So the wohle game tends to be highly repetitive and people seem to get into farming mode even if they don't need to. And what of all the gamers who already got to highest ranking are they really encouraged to play any further then or do they drop out because well boredom?
Other games have and "endgame" contend, this is missing here - except you want to see a fully kitted out raider in the same raids as before as same. We are content creators AND gamers at the same time that has to generate differences in opinion.
And then there is the fact that the overbearing part of evry comunity are players which tend to just play the game and don't use any forums or discord - they max go youtube/twich or whatever for ideas/ fun-watching that's it.
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425728#Comment_3425728
make a base that is normal, has a single tunnel to the genmat, then write XP on it. watch how many raids it gets compared to everything else you post.
But that's not on the casuals, thats lazy progress players who want to join this kind of sorry, crappy outpost.
Casuals - are players who play seldom or not in the ladder (by the wider definition).
I think we are generally the same opinion but nitpicking the details...
-
That was what i thought from the begining that social will have a tendency to grab players out of the rotation because those maps are "proofed" and can be discussed and enjoyed without this progress hickhack.
I have two maps big brutal /small dangerous under my name in social, there will be all my ranked up maps after rotation a third(medium brutal) will join them today. They are just getting dusty atm. because i not very active in twich or else and have no reach, so maybe somebody wants to give them a try? Constructive feedback is always welcome. :)
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425018#Comment_3425018
I agree. Not only did the raiders leave in fear of the second wave exploit, the builders that were just using lava cubes got no raids for one reason or another and also left.
The whole rank system was a mistake. It got partly sorted with the last patch, but never should have been a part of the game. It hammered "dying to often lets you lose ranks" into peoples minds and hitting alt-f4 whenever something isn´t rewarding became like a natural move to some people. Which is totally contrary to what the trailers always suggested.
On top, the economy is build to favor raiders over builders. Someone who spams grenades during a raid, will never spend as much in grenades as he gains in parts during the raid. Someone who tries to keep a base running without raiding will hit a wall after a short amount of time. Since no base, doesn´t matter how successful it is, will be self sufficient. Which partly led to the flood of kill boxes, since builders felt forced to get as many kills in the hope to keep a base running, which then led to the alt-f4 behavior at the release of the game.
Raiders going for free XP maps could also simply be a result of the synth starved playerbase. Which is sadly the thing that didn´t get fixed with the patch (instead, consumables were made more expensive).
At release i build some (i think) nice maps, that looked good and appealing. Spend hours on them. They lasted a little over a week. While i understand that there always needs to be a influx of new maps, having a map that cost you hours and hours just become useless feels... kinda frustrating. Maybe there should be another accolade or something for amazing maps. That would allow maps to continue their live circle beyond lvl 10, if enough people give that map a upvote. It would certainly motivate builders.
The economy has to favor raiders over builders because if it didn't people would raid even less. The game was never intended for build only/ raid only players. They specifically stated that it was intended that you build AND raid!!!
There are no system sanctioned bots in this game but guards. So people HAVE to raid to essentially get raids on their own outposts.
I like to build too but i accept that i have to raid to so that other builders get traffic and hopefully raid other outposts and generate traffic for my outpost too. This here is the problem, a few only builders would be sutainable but not many and who to choose. If you want a game that grants you raids on your outposts while not raiding yourself you have to have bots or many "raid only" players more in the mix as "builder only" both are not in the game! Especially if a builder can have more than one active map.
The same with the difficulty brackets and traffic - if people only run normal/dangerous but build more brutals than there will be not enough traffic to sustain all those maps which won't get enough raiders.
Yes we can all build only normal /dangerous outposts but then those brackets would have an "overflow" of outposts too and the traffic for a single outpost will go down even if the amount of raids overall in that bracket stays at the same level.
-
@Dreamnomad said:
Okay, well, I'm not a fan of the new system at all. It's like you get one hour of active raids and then you will get zero raids afterwards. It's like you seriously might as well just prestige your outpost after it's been online for 2 hours because you aren't getting any raids afterwards. At least that way you get the bonus 15% gen mat. How hard is it to make a system where once you get a raid you go to the bottom of the queue and then your outpost waits to climb back up the queue until you get a raid again?
The problem is that the comunity has to want to raid and that seems to be a problem - most seem to primarily want to build and have raids - but just go on as few and fast/easy raids as necessary to get the mats for building. I have momentary no outpost in the lower difficulty brackets but my dangerous and brutal outpost wich are all rank 5 or higher have the same problem as you describe one hour of active raids between 1-5 raids and then the rest of the duration nothing it doen't matter how much i raid. But if there are many more maps in those brackets which aren't played as much, like brutal for example, then even that system you suggested would not generate enough raids because there are just to many maps for to many raiders.
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425650#Comment_3425650
Master 1 means nothing with no rank penalties. with 0 setback, literally anyone can climb. there is no longer a skill requirement for master 1 as there is no way to go backwards.
yeah, i'm gonna spend my time stockpiling a crap ton of low effort resources while i'm able to profit off this poor decision. because it's again, profitable. i can now farm synthite at a rate of over 3000 an hour doing this. so i'm gonna hit the currency cap.
you know what, yeah. i'm fine with this. builders no longer have to raid, they can just farm tombs and leave for no penalty. they made it so i don't have to raid anymore i can focus on my building. wonderful!
HEY BUILDERS, you don't actually have to beat bases anymore to build, just take tombs on the big maps and quit any that are blocked since there is no rank penalty, leave after getting tombs, don't do outpost. saves time, better profit per hour, less frustration, and you can go back to focusing on what you actually wanted to do. POWER TO THE BUILDERS!!!! BUILDER TO MASTER!!!
Oh... this is a very misleading post. Since i read a lot here in the forum i know that you are not a pure raider on the contrary you seem to like building as much as raiding. So it's very sarcastic and ironic - i get you but some will not understand it the way it is intended.
Because if they really do follow that advice they shoot them selfs in the foot because there are no pure raiders in this game at least not long time, because well there are no incentives to hold them in game after they maxed out their equipment there would be only cosmetics for them.
That's one of the big problems of this game, that many don't get that they can't do only the one thing (build only) without hurting the experience of anybody else that plays the game as intended.
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/375256/rank-is-hurting-the-game
Did you miss the part where there is no way to LOSE rank anymore? you literally can't go down. everyone who bothered to rank up with risk got devalued and didn't get compensated, but now everyone following them just gets easy street. they had no problem awarding prestige retroactively on outposts, so what about the rank?
you want rank removed, i don't. i rather like my number and working to get it closer and closer to 1. makes me feel acomplished to compete against other players to move up the ladder, thats the point of master rank but the casuals all see it as "oh, i'm master 2000, guess master is easy and everyone here did what did (grinding normals)" because they aren't actually challenging themselves. they don't have any way to track yourself against other players stats outside of master ranking, so no. i don't want it removed.
Sry for the wall of text but it is an exensive thematic:
Casuals like me are not even at master rank, btw.
I'm still on my way to silver 1 but i don't play for ladder progression. I did that for years in other games and came to the conclusion that i personally have more fun and relaxation if i don't play progress or perhaps i should say i progress at a differnt pace.
So now we have a devalued rankingsystem and a level system which does nothing to the gameplay for both players and outposts?
Because well a Rank 10 doesn't seem to have really more value than an Rank 5 both are in the champion bracket, since nobody can see the rank of the outpost before joining that outpost.
So even the different cap sizes are irrelevant because they are just not there as a criteria for selection. So you don't know if that small outpost which seem to have many blocks build in their design, has many traps or just a few because of the different capsizes between the rank.
Why is it that every game producer thinks the grind is THE way to get people to stay in games? I mean I don't like repetetive tasks even if i get payed for them in real life with real money - i do them because i need the money but not because i like the tasks. The grind in rpg or other mmo's makes sense because you get better gameplay value from them - here it's just cosmetics. There isn't even a hitpoint pool which can get bigger and rise the surviability of a character. Games should make fun and relax not be an collection of repetetive tasks with no relative meaning.
It's essentially a shooter with rpg elements smashed in and then to complicate everything s.o. though it a good idea 4 currencys from which exactly one stears the whole economy. Then there are the diffrent expectations at the two "roles" raider and builder.
The raider just has to raid - hopfully fast and with as less death as possible.
The builder has to build an "good" outpost, but there is the problem from building perspctive you have to kill as many as often as you can. Your goal is essentially to guard your genetic materials - if you don't you get processed into the sucessful raiders outpost, thats the story.
But what is a "good" Outpost. Most seem to prefer easy fast paced outpost because time/value, when raiding.
So it seems that most think it's on the builder to get people to raid their outpost, but from a lore perspective that is simply not what a builder should do - he should want to hold on to all the genmat he doesn't want sucessful raids, he doesn't want to get his genmat extracted. He wants raids and kills for outpost progression.
Lorewise the raider is the one who should be chomping at the bit to get raiding, because he has to gain the genmat for his own outpost/chimera in anyway possible - which is building outposts to mine genmat from the dead and raiding other outposts and killing their inhabitants. Not nitpicking every outpost for time/value - just raid and go on.
What most don't seem to get is that this is not a raiders against builders or faction vs. faction scenario - it's essentially an everybody against everybody free for all royal rumble.
There is no "we" in this game except in coop, everything else is I have to do this or that if I want to do something.
It's not we raiders and it's not we builders because everybody is a raider and a builder for the gamemechanics. There is no way to build without raiding which is intended - because many build only players and no raid only players can't support that game economy.
And for raid only players there is not much incentive to stay longtime in the game atm. So we all have to do both because else the system won't run properly. Oh... wait.. maybe... it doesn't atm.
Which we cannot really gauge because we don't even know why some outposts get traffic while others doesn't. Because we can't see how many players got the option to chose that outpost in the first place. Was the outpost not chosen deliberatly because well it wasn't attractive enough or because not enough got it in their raidselection as an option? That's the first question that is to solve than you can really determine if an outpost is sucessful or if it just got more visibility and so more had the option to chose this outpost than another outpost.
-
Maybe there is a way to implement something like that but it would have to be more a reward system for sucessfull retrieve of genmat. Maybe a feature that lets the outpost owner set an amount of genmat/synth he is willing to grant for sucessfull clear. Syth would starve the economy even more, genmat - could be possible economy wise but the amount can't be to high.
Btw. if you raid an overdrive outpost - the owner loses the genmat already - but get's the raider that amount more or does it go into nirvana like the outpost prestige after rank 10? Because that would be exactly that. But on the other side i can't really see if an outpost is in overdrive when i select a raid, or does the suit buff give that info to and i didn't see it?
-
@MythicMikeneto said:
So for me, at top out, I will make an assessment of effort required to win versus the gain.
If I have spent 10 active minutes and 3 deaths and havent even caught site of the gen mat (and die again) I am likely gonna bounce.
Not all outpost are built for players like me, so I leave my two accolades and be on my way.
As a builder, unless you are going go build your outpost with a solution in mind for all player types, some are going to 'tap out' on your build (sometimes even without trying).
The blocking holo cubes over tombs are likely to get you (stupidly) blocked, because of the high levels of raider 'entitlement' to tombs (though I find the idea of post gen mat access to tombs to be a great idea overall).
How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?
Being spiteful about raiders who dont want to raid your build sounds kinda toxic.
In my opinion, Builders need to build to the interest of the raiders. They will always hold the keys to a build's success story.
If you build a killbox ans the raider deosnt want. speend run high adrenaline experience, they are gonnaa leave.
If you build an stroll through easy base, speed runner pro are gonna blaze through, 0 death, and not leave commends.
If you build a time sink maze, soem are gonna leave after 15 mintues of boredom and leave no accolades for wasting their time.
The point is, you cant please them all.
We need more raiders of all different types, period.
I think these 'builder only' players or dragging down the game by soaking up raids and not giving any back.
The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.
Cheesy meta and spiteful oupost builds arent gonna do that. Be better than that.
That's what i do except i find a trap combo or a room where i see a challenge then there can be more than 10 deaths before i ve seen the genmat but i think that's normal behavior for all players nobody wants to waste time all play for fun, however that is defined.
As i said i have no problem if people leave because they dislike it because of whatever i can't and don't even want to control what they do with their life.
I have a problem with the reduced number of raids overall in my outposts since the update and i fear it's because now all three outposts between rank 5 and ten i have, have more than enough prestige to rank up repeatitly. But should i if i had the orange upgrade all those to max possible? What do i get out of it except the cost of orange and some EXP ? I just looked the rank 5 has acutally enough prestige for 5 rank ups. I mean do we as builders get anything out of it if our outposts out run the pace?
My rank 10 runs it's last run and get's what 6 raids in 12 hours? I could activate and deactivate it - but i just set it to overdrive and set it to social when it runs out sad end for a good running outpost.
-
I raid brutals at the moment, and for most you actually don't need much. I play mostly with volt lancer and crossbow and as consumables i have grenades and the turtle shield thingy. And unless it's a Rank 5 or above i die very seldom more than 3 times. But my prefered playstyle isn't the fastest so instead of headbutting into heavily defended rooms i tend to look around and think over what i would do with the place. At champion Level they tend to get harder in a Rank 10 it's up to 20 and more deaths for me. Still more fun than running around in a normal map maybe it's just because there is more to shoot...
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424977#Comment_3424977
they'll fear "legitimate mechanics" and quit too, did you not consider that? if the issue is fear causing them to leave they need to conquer that fear or they won't improve. taking away builders tools instead of improving their functionality will push builders away. we already don't like grabbing ammo through our walls or kiting our guards outside where they can't pursue raiders to get free kills. there seems to be a ton of consideration for the raider that the builder is supposed to cater to, but where are our fixes against raider exploitation? builders complaints get ignored because there are less of us. it's easy to be a raider and just hop in and out of any dungeon with no penalty. builders spend hours crafting things and get minimal raides, get bad mouthed by the raiders who abuse their dungeons and exploit their own mechanics then call the builder an exploiter cause they had a one way door, or 2nd wave acid. it's a double standard. so if all you want to see is copy and paste basic youtube builds, sure, take away out tools and encourage quitting instead of fleshing out our tools and encouraging learning.
we could have given raiders a tenacity bonus that rewarded them for finally completing something with many attempts or times spent, we could have given grace periods for leaving outposts without fully removing penalties. as some point there needs to be accountability that a player made an active decision to do something and there SHOULD BE consequences to that. but since the patch, outside of socials, i've had ONE person die more than twice in a dungeon and continue playing, because why continue playing? theres no penalty to quitting and finding something easier. why bother learning when you can just go play free XP maps (i have 4 up because of how many raids they get, i don't even bother making art builds or fun things anymore for normal, they just don't get the raids that XP maps do) yet these are the people that got catered to. i don't care of those players are driven away, i don't want to share a playerbase with them anyways. anyone who willingly hunts down XP maps in a game like this honestly makes me cringe.
so i make my XP maps the most unpleasant and unrewarding experience i can, to discourage that type of map hunting. those raids being selected takes raids away from art builds and builds that actually challenge the player to learn and completely ruin the point of the game "here, free stuff in a post-apocalyptic wasteland based around thieving genetic material to survive" and if those players are driven out, XP maps will stop getting raids and we'll see more REAL maps.
I sometimes join those free XP maps just to troll them but one like yours would get accolades from me and maybe a death or 5 if its "nice". ;)
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424937#Comment_3424937
we feel the same way about the people who got corrosive targeting removed rather than made into a mod with a cost. they were vocal, they were not the majority but complained loudly enough that it got taken away. you say he shouldn't frame his point of view as the majorty, why do you assume that you're the majority opinion? just because it was removed? just means that faction was louder. it's also possible that devs made a judgement error out of fear of losing their game because of that vocal population. doing things that aren't good for the game out of fear is something that happens. negative stimuli is often stronger than positive so it takes a lot more of us supporting things to make them into balanced cost adjusted mechanics, but it takes less effort to just bend and remove it entirely. there are plenty of people beyond just momolepro that were in support of that removed function. we just didn't feel a need to be as vocal because we thought it was balanced enough it wouldn't be considered for full on removal. opaque needed fixing, that i agree on but removing targeting entirely i disagree with wholeheartedly and i look forward to when we get the player support to bring it back as a mod.
Where did i say that i had the same opinion as the majority - if you read exactly what i wrote - i never gave an opinion to anything but the framing issue i had with those postings. Because I see good arguments on both sides and there are some nice tries to find a compromise from both sides.
And yes you are of course right - the same goes for argumentation in any direction. As i stated there will never be a majority for anything in a playerbase because there are as many opinions as players in the base.
To be clear my personal point of view is:
It 's was not intended to function that way, but it's used in that way - remove it because it's an exploit doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Simply out of principle. If maps where not player generated but by the system or dev's i would do the same. It's not to personally curb someone or get a advantage over someone. Bend the rules as much as you can yes - but using an exploit is more like using a already broken rule as a base for meta outpostdesign.
Also because as everything s.o. uses excessively it get's boring fast.
I think that perhaps they should get a modified version of said trapcombos in the game, because yes it's stupid that raiders can see and shoot through the cubes but traps just sit there like ducks and don't see the player. Maybe make it possible with some kind of number restriction or only a type of trap that can detect through them. And maybe we will get something like that in the future. I mean they seem to at least try to listen to complains however we as players may personally feel about those.
-
That's interesting i got 5 raids today since login in at 7:30 am and reactivating. Three zero kill walkthroughs (8, 9 and 11min), one died 5 times got genmat in 14min and one quit after 2 death and 2min 5 sek playtime.
That's all I got in 10 hours time, it's about 17 pm now.I only raided 3 brutals today until now, the last at 14pm.
Just now there pops one raid in: one death, walkthrough in 3:40min.
So it's 6 raids over 10 hours activation time where the first 5 where in the first two hours of activation... the same map got at least 4 hightraffic times a day ( at about 7am 12-14pm, 17-21 pm and some latenight flies after midnight befor the update. So in that case a twentyfour hour activation made sense.
And if it's intended for maps to not stay in the raidingqueue for to long that would make sense - so the map would last about 7-10 days just running through genmat and uprgradeing and then go to social or the bin.
But now i will only activate those maps if i see a chance to get a traffic window. That's a very big change in the lifetime cycle of maps - they may get kicked out of rotation due to deactivation but the overall time in the queue will be much longer. I don't know if that was intended by the dev's.
-
Some at one death some at two deaths some with no death but 3 min video with senselessy jumping around outside the outpost... just getting the tombs and not even trying to go inside.
Edit:
I mean it's a medium map in brutal... why join those if you don't even try?
-
@momolepro48 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424923#Comment_3424923
Yes its better death rooms....
This game is made by comu! If the comu find a new feature let them enjoy it !!
You are not the comu!!! There are as many opinions in the comu as there are players.
Just stop framing you point of view (which may or maybe not "good") as the opinion of the majority of a comu where more than half are mute players which never will join any discussions, they still belong to the comunitiy. You can't possibly know what "the comunitiy" wants because there is NO and there will never be unity in the playerbase about this.
-
But that's exactly the problem you and perhaps many more see it like this others may perhaps like mazes.
I just don't get why everybody seems to think that an outpost has to be either a maze or a killbox.
You can use both concepts in one design and then it doesn't get overboard or boring. Make a few (short) corridors with nice trap designs and a well designed killroom (or more). And yes long labyrinthine corridor designs completly without traps are boring and sry stupid, it doesn't do the builder one bit of good it just annoys the raider.
There are many maps where i ask myself what was the intention of the builder - just to brainf... s.o. or didn't he or she have the cap points to trap everything as intended? In an rank 9 or 10 i would tend to the first in maps with lower ranking i would tend to the second. But if then there are other things like meanly trapped tombs (e.g. bomblayer) or nasty corrosive cube combos maybe the builder is just a griefer?
And why do Rank 1 small maps get equipped directly with high cap traps which means much less traps per map than low cap traps? 750 cap 300-400 used on blocks and the rest for high cap traps is just bad usage of resources. 350- 450 points for traps are 7-9 bolttrowers and even more impalers without mod, but only 5-7 flamethrowers or any other 70 cap trap. That's just for unmoded traps if you put mods on them then there are even less traps in such a setup.
-
A few wouldn't be a problem if your outposts get enough raids to offset the "loss".
There is a difference if you get 40 raids in 24 hours and perhaps 10 quit early while the others play through and die more often than not more than twice. Or the same Outpost gets only 5 raids in 24 hours and 4 quiters.
Pls don't tell me it's the design because it ran fine with same setup before the update - so it's nothing on my side that reduced the number of raids on this outpost significantly. And those that raid it and don't quit - give accolades even if they die often, so it can't be to bad. And I raid maybe not a lot but i try to do atleast three champion outposts a day for the mats in normal, dangerous and brutal (depends on my mood) - if i have the time i raid even more.
For me it's not even the "loss" of deaths but the loss of videos - i want to see those outposts played - if they kill good for me, if they don't good for the raider. But i want to see action - if the raiders best some of my designs it's for the better - maybe i find a way to modify my design to be better or more fun - maybe not. Sometimes i get the idea for a whole new maps by just watching the raids on my outpost.
-
I still think it's more an attitude problem as a mechanics problem.
Most people have a mental disconnect because you have to kill as many as you can as a "builder" and at the same time as a raider you have to get through the raids fast and with as few deaths as possible.
Solutions:
Build your raids as difficult as you like and try join only raids of same or lesser difficulty as you your self build
Build your raids as difficult as you like and try to join only raids of the same or HIGHER difficulty as you your self build
Build your raids as difficult as you like and just play any base you join
Build your raids as difficult as most raiders like (which i personally still don't know because of the problem stated above) and try join only raids of same or lesser difficulty as you your self build
and so on.
I think most of us play games because well they are fun, but in this game there is a very wide spread of definitiuons for what anyone sees as fun.
Some like it hard, some like it easy, some want a challenge sometimes and an easy raid the other.
Look at the discussions in this forum and the steam forum there are as many opinions to what a "good" outpost should be like as there are participants.
Back to topic - we all got at least some of what we want and if it's just the knowledge that they are still working on things and did'nt write of the game as an failure. And they react to feedback even if it's not the reaction you personally wanted to see.
So thanks for that dear DEV's.
Now pls tweak the matchmaking so that we can get more that 5 raids in 24 hours or at least state how you intended the matchmaking and outpost activation to work in the first place.
Should Outposts only be active if you are online? Then you don't need the whole genmat lifecycle thing in the first place! Just activate and deactivate them automatically on login and logout.
The prestige upgrades whould be enough to ultimatliy kick and outpost out of the matchmaking at rank 10, just make it so that the outpost can't be raided anymore before it was upgraded if it got enough prestige.
-
@Seraphor said:
Increase by another 5 please, and add a "buy 100" option too, buying 10 at a time just takes way too long and I still have too many Parts.
Yet I still don't find the need to use much in most outposts, most can be completed without any grenades or shields.
Consumable fear is not related to the cost of equipment, it's related to your limited carry inventory, only having 3 grenades available at a time, means no matter how many you buy or how much they cost, you only have 3 chances to get it right.
It's the same with the volt lancer - three shots.
In some outposts there are trapcombos, where if you shot the first trap on sight you won't have enough bolts to clear the whole combo which you would have to do to get to the first bolt. So you have to either use a consumable or speed grapple through and /or shield one or more of the traps that are still active. But if you look at the combo and shoot the "right" trap in the beginning you can go through by just shooting the traps in the right order.
Then there is the problem that if you use grenades there are these stupid halfblock glitches. It's just annoying to unintenionaly blow up a tomb you couldn't see through a halfblock and then perhaps dying on the way to the tomb and possibly loosing all that orange.
The fear of running out of consumables should now be reduced because there is no penalty for quiting, rearming and reentering anymore.
And if you join a raid without consumables it's most often than not your own fault for not checking your gear - happens to me sometimes, use 150 grenades in a week and just forget to buy new ones.
But that's my own negligence in checking my stocks and i know that i don't need to use those many in most raids, but one the other side they would be just getting rusty in stock if i don't use them and i like when things go boom in games.
-
@momolepro48 said:
Its a bad update !!!
The ranked is now really easy 90% of players will be master just for playing...
The "exploit bug" of the magma make deversity in outpost and its easy to counter when you know the game. But now all the outpost will be a death room...
Why developers casu the game? The communauty is the hardcore gamers not the guy who launch the game 1 day in a mounth...
Oh and we cant relaunch your outpost for more attack its a bad Idea again cose the guy who launch him outpost and go afk 24h will be same the guy who rest on the game all the day for looking replay.
Sry for my english
Well... fisrt the comunity is not only the hardcore players!!! in the contrary it's the casual playerbase that holds most games alive.
Deathrooms are now not soo bad anymore because - oh yeah no deathpenalties. I don't think that there will be more killboxes out there.
Ranking.... It's a Seasonal Ranking and there is not reason to get first place bcause you don't get something extra for that.
The problem if have with the update is that 3 of my outpost which got 10-20 raids in a cycle of 12 hours now get 1-3 raids since the update. No clue if the update is the cause. Two of the 3 have enough prestige to upgrade through to rank 10 - i just don't have enough synthite. I raided outposts all dificulties in the last 24h often so i don't get it why suddenly traffic breaks down....
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3414686#Comment_3414686
Wouldn't be a bad outcome, but we still need a more competent system of calculating difficulty to go with all this. Maybe if Brutal bases were truly Brutal, rather than simply large 'Dangerous' bases that have spent too much of sporadic trap placement, it wouldn't be such a big problem of co-ops burning through Brutal bases with little challenge.
Well the System in place is not completly bad, at the moment it's trap density hrv - path that mostly defies the difficulty?
Just integrate the capacity of the building site and perhaps the number and distance of specific traps to one another especially those that can trigger unlimited times.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3414561#Comment_3414561
You're literally rewarded for deaths. Co-op players die more.
Also (I've not played co-op yet so I'm not certain) but don't co-op players each give up to 2 Accolades? The devs have flat out said that Accolades are designed to be the most rewarding metric.
Yes both can give accolades so that you could get 4 in one raid but mostly you will only get two...
And Accolades are more an excuse for an feedbacksystem than a real help in designing your outpost
An Example
small 750 starting cap
normal/dangerous (since Rank 7)
Raid attempts 190
Kills 309
killratio 1.6
Accolades :
Fun 95
Ingenious 40
Brutal 24
Artistic 50
The only thing i can read out out that data is that a part of the raiders "liked" the outpost for something. I don't know what they specific liked or disliked.
And i can't even correlate with the videos, because no i don't have the time to watch 190 vids between 1-25 min duration just to guess where there might be the reason for one outpost.
Don't forget that many raiders just don't give accolades because they hit the wrong button while trying to select them, which is very frustrating when accolades give necessary points to the builder.
-
There is this paragraph in the tutorial section for champion maps there should be an best time/ death list of all raids for that outpost. At least that's how i unterstand it, did it never got implemented? I can see those outpost as extra in my raidselection when i got enough "normal" outposts, but nothing else distinctives them from the others than the Rank and that extra place?
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419064#Comment_3419064
that's nice, benefit from a map designed to give you benefit then be like "ha ha screw you builder who did something nice for people" /sarcasm
edit -if you don't reward non-killboxes, all you'll see are killboxes.
I reward non killboxes and I reward killboxes, when I think they earned it.
Trying to gain more raiders with maps that are "against" the ultimate goal of a builder to create a deathtrap - by advertising with "free xp" maps they will ultimatly kill the game faster than anything else because the other maps in rotation will get played less.
-
Both b uilders throught the already named exploits and the raiders can at least cheat which is essentially an exploit. Because those codes maybe part of the game but they are not part of the mechanics the devs implemented for the players.
-
Ok if the sucess of a base is ultimatly coupled with the burial site, than that's understandable.
I ve a brig brutal rank 3 that i don't get to rank up because of a lack of raids, but i thought that's because nobody wants to play big brutals or at least not enough.
So if i would make a normal difficulty map out of that big brutal it won't be seen either? That's well at least consistent with all the other issues i have with the game. It sometimes feels if they had three differend developement concepts and just smashed them together.
We have :
maps where we can delete all the building elements but not the "history" like accolades and so on?
raiders getting punished for dying while builders must kill as much as possible to get rewards. Well absolutely no conflict potential there.... o.O
A Currency and upkeep system that is only barely self sustainable and practically forces everybody to grind. Which btw. enforces the said conflict potential.
And a Ranking system without a real ranking - it's seems to be more like a level?
Don't get me wrong i like to play the game most of the mechanics are at least good enough for that, but man that game had potential to be so much more than it is.
-
I ve got two active outpost at the moment both i activated today 6:45 CET The small normal one Raank 7 got 10 raids til now the other a medium dangerous Rank 4 got 7 raids until now and while i'm writing the alarms go off for even more raids.
The big brutal i send to retirement in social there is no way at the moment that those get enough raids to upgrade from rank 3 further.
Interestingly i have found some normal small raids more difficult that big brutal ones, so i can't even say that brutals are more time/cost efctive to raid than normals but im only bronze 3 so i don't get so harsh penalties.
-
Else take the cogwheel, that makes sounds too and should be in the default packages.
-
But why abandon the grave site - you can just build something else in it instead?
I don't think it the site itself that's the reason the outpost doesn't get raided.
-
There a competitive raiders and there are raiders "fixated" on their ranking - that's a difference. A competitive raider would meet the challenges of the given map until it's cleared. A ranking fixated raider quits said map after 2 deaths e.g. because he/she loses points or he/she doesn't gain enough for his/her effort.
I would get that in a game where there is an acual ranking ladder but i haven't seen one in this game.
And a seasonal ranking well there is no actual need to rush that - because you won't get more rewards because of a faster time?!
-
Well i try to do those without dying and leave no accolades - they are completly contraproductive to the game.
-
@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3413852#Comment_3413852
i'll say this. ever since i stopped making bases brutal and swapped to normal cheese builds i've been getting a ton more new players that have no clue what they're doing because they skipped the tutorial and a couple of high ranked speed runners that have long since forgotten the basics of the game. so both die and my 4500 capacity base is growing. once i hit prestige 9 i'll turn it back into a fun brutal base.
It's astounding how often I see videos where players practiaclly stand before a trap - ignore it and it fires them in the back 5 sec later.... they see the atleast 3 boltthrowers pointed at them - they jump through the opening into the traps what they don't even need to do and don't even shield...
-
@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419023#Comment_3419023
i prefer clever trap design also, but we aren't given many tools to be clever. every single "clever" placement is countered by the slow raider. every... single... one.
Well, that's the problem every outpost is essentially a killbox per gamedesign.
But there is a world of difference between a "killbox" setup with mainly plasmas and one with boltthrowers. The last get's kills too, but the raider has more chances to suceed because of ammo constrains.
And the slow walking players you can get too... bomblayers are perfect for those, one placed right does the trick, shot them in the back, play a little bit with the aiming range of the trap and the distance to the target use the mods in different setups differently.
Yes it's by design that you can beat every single trap by movement, by parry, by shields and you can even get them to damage each other... because the dev's don't want to have actually impossible maps.
-
Does the prestige and outpost gains have any value in the game except as a "rank up border"? I mean if outpost have way more prestige than they need to Rank 10, what happens to that prestige when it hits rank 10? Does it go into player ranking or vanishes into air? I get that you get prestige from kils and those are good for the ranking but accolades give prestige to, is the outpost prestige count just a display of lifetime gain? Sry for going of topic.
If you wand to go overdrive do it - and perhaps try to deactivate it during low traffic times if you think you don't get enough out of it.
It's the same question with ranking up outposts before the genmat content is run out. Shoul you do it - or not? I sometimes do it with outposts which hafe low genmatcap left to get the cap to build it up further. But a Level 1 small outpost could be ranked up multiple times in the begining if you have the synthite i there another reason to do this than exp and cap?
-
If you play for ranking you have to make your outpost as difficult as allowed by the level - restrictions, because you won't get any points from low leveled players anymore or you have to kill them many many times you can even loose points. So of course the traps in outposts of those players are a little bit more challenging than in one where the maker perhaps doesn't care about the ranking.
I have one in normal bordering dangerous at the moment - at least that's what the system say's. I get runs between 40sek zero kills and 9 min 15 kills in the same map.... 1.5 kill ratio with a time of 2 min average clear time. It's designed to challenge a part of the playerbase and let the other farm points, it's normal. You want a real challenge - go brutal. And I still get a kill of some high level players because they underestimate those setups sometimes.
And yes there are ways to kill even good players without spamming for e.g 20 plasmaturrets and flamers and cubes in a single room. Those can be fun too, but i personally appriciate clever trap design more than pure overkill but that's a personal taste if you prefer to disagree that's ok.
-
@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3411394#Comment_3411394
coop is broken to begin with. you have a free infinite phoenix pod. tell me how that's fair?
the solution is simple. make bedrock a placeable block in build mode and make it so that the item can't blow up bedrock. and bedrock will cost more than 1 point, but less than 10. so maybe 5?
What's broken, what's unfair?
Builders standpoint:
Yes they can revive so what - more revives equals just more opportunities to kill 'em. The better for me.
Only with the overdrive mechanics you can make a loss on coop runs. Else they are a net gain if they don't exploit.
Raiders Standpoint:
The ranking! Coop is much better than solo for the ranking. Is it, truly? Because there is no skill based comparison in this ranking it's futile to compare solo and coop.
You can't even compare solo raids on the same map with each other - because, they get constantliy modified which is intended by the same rankingsystem.
And don't forget in a room full of traps 2 people can trigger more of them than one and the same time and in different places. So maybe that's the reason for the revives.
-
@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3411186#Comment_3411186
1 block being broken wouldn't break the game. 2 blocks? maybe. but 1 block? i think there would be an incentive to make double layered walls which could allow for some interesting trap baits.
The problem is that you need much more capacity if you double wall everthing - it's bad enough that you can destroy traps/mobs/players in a room build out of halfblocks - without you or the projectile/grenade ever entering it.
Build such a room put some traps in it it doesn't even have to have an entrance or exit, and grapple around on the outside and your threatdetection will go off...
-
@RaidenHusky said:
I have no idea what this would look like or how to implement this, but it would be really awesome if you could somehow find the maps you have played before.
Sooooo many times I beat REALLY cool maps and Im like "#########, I wish I could show my friend this one!" Or "come back here with my friend and do this base together!" Or "Haha, cant believe I fell for that! I wanna see my friend try this one!"
Idk, yeah, just would love something thaglt could address those vibes
Just note Usertag + Mapname and hope that it gets set to social after the rank up to "mastered" or ask in a forum or pm or something if the maker can set it to social. The searchfunction maybe not so userfriendly but you can find maps in there...
-
As the game is if they impemlent that.
Many will just play social because it will be more fun than the grind. That would be bad for those who want to get a high ranking, because many will use the default mappool just to rank up their bases to get more capacity for social. So that pool will be full of boring repetitive standardized prestige farmboxes and not much fun to play.
-
@Dreamnomad said:
There simply shouldn't be a way for map makers to auto kill harvesters. If the raider kills the harvester, cool. If the harvester dies from a trap triggered by the raider, cool. If the harvester dies as soon as the match starts, not cool. I can't even begin to understand why this isn't fixed yet. So easy to do to. Just move the start destination of harvester back one tile.
What's the problem? I can build you an entrance where the traps kill harv for sure even if the player survives. Unless the raiders wait with entering the outpost until harv is deeper in the outpost. The outcome is the same, and i limited your choice - you have to wait with starting, for harv to survive. Flamer Bombdispenser combo and a rampdown with an u-turn at the end does the trick nicely. I followed all the rules and still can be almost 100 sure that you have to play the outpost without harv. The means are different but both get the raider stranded in an outpost without guide. The only way except for waiting til the danger is over is to try to shield the hary with a consumable... which would be ideal from my( the builders) point of view.
-
@cubanchris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3409725#Comment_3409725
Lmfao for real those 45 min playthroughs with no deaths. I just auto delete. Best playthroughs are the speedsters and coop buffoonery.
And it's much more fun to try to trap coop-raids than single raiders, because they have so many ways to harm each other unintentionaly and in ways i would never have thought of by playing my own base in tests. You will never get all raiders or a base design that kills every player only once, twice or whatever number you prefer consistently.
-
@Seraphor said:
0 is disappointing, 1 is ok, 2-3 would be ideal. Double digits? T-thank you?
Kill boxes are dumb. It's attempting to throw everything at a raider to make it impossible to beat. It's a 'checkmate' scenario that even the builder knows they wouldn't enjoy facing. And the thing about 'checkmate' is that it ends the game. I will abandon and you only get 1 kill.
It's like camping in DBD, sure you've ruined that one survivors but if the other 3 aren't stupid they slam gens and leave.
There are acutally the possibilties to bind a killbox in your design without making it "boring". I ve build a map with a castle like structure in which you can run around and battle it out with guards and traps. There are ares where i use overkill and there are areas where i don't use it. And sometimes it depends on the direction you go or if you are in a team.
And back to the topic as a real defensive castle it needs what? A Murderhole! So yes i trapped the entrance to hell and beyond. It' so badly trapped that you can do the whole shabbang in a speedrun in under 3min incl. the extra crypt for the tombs. On the other hand if you want to sneak or to battle your way in, or goof around and explore you can do it - but i tried my damndest to make your life hard and build in a little bit of mindf...
And since it's a big brutal map i hope you have fun...