MrMyers4321
MrMyers4321
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186312#Comment_2186312
The amount of time it takes a killer to stand and wait for the death of a player doesn't change based on the length of time it takes survivors to do gens. So it's irrelevant to the camping killer in terms of bordom. What it does change though is how easy it is for them to then go camp the second survivor.
OK so since you haven't confirmed your playdtyle I'm guessing I'm getting it wrong so I apologize but I'm not sure how to discuss how this could reduce or increase camping for your style of play Ilif you don't set out what that style is. As you said we need to examine from the killers perspective so please provide how tou play so we can do that
Since I'm quite tired of this, I'm going to finish it up here. 1. You have yet to answer my questions despite me answering yours. 2. You haven't fully demonstrated how camping is a big problem, especially when many perks exist to counter it. We don't have to change the mechanics of the game just because some survivors aren't smart. If camping doesn't work every single game, then maybe it's not the game mechanics. Maybe the burden lies on the players involved, not the game. Jerks & noobs aside, most camping is caused by generators going extremely quickly. If generators take longer to complete, killers will patrol them far more often, rather than sticking to one side of the map. The longer the game, the more players are forced to interact to pip and gain bloodpoints. This goes for campers & gen jockeys. Now, you're likely going to turn this into a double-edged sword and say hey, couldn't the same be said about killers? Don't they need to just improve and we won't have to improve gen times? Yes, but the problem is a killer has to interact with other players 100% of the time, while a survivor has 3 buddies to help him out. Killer is far more difficult and stressful than survivor. That needs to be slightly tweaked. The best way to beat a camper is to both win and lose against one. I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer. Camping is rare. It's often the killers pure skill that destroys us. The same can be said when we destroy him. **The issue is, because killer is more difficult than survivor at the moment, we have a ton of rank 1 survivors that only know how to do generators. When they die, they complain to the forums that camping is a problem.** In short, increasing the length of games slightly would encourage player interaction and therefore increase skill. Even if camping increases, players will learn how to deal with it due to repetitive player interaction and practice. You need to understand that practice makes perfect. We're done here.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186294#Comment_2186294
Sorry so your thinking is that even though killers out there camp out of the gate, (even though you think it's already boring for them to do so yet they still do it) your saying less people would camp out the gate if camping out the gate was more effective than it currently is?
you don't see that as ridiculous? these players are doing something you think is boring for them to secure a win and you think they would stop doing that if it became even easier for them to win? Seems you can't put yourself in theire shoes very well at all so how about we look at your playstyle?
Just to make sure i don't misrepresent how you play, you don't camp unless your loosing right?
People will be more inclined to camp if it's a 5 minute game vs if it's a 10 minute game..... 5 minutes of camp is already boring. 10 is SUPER boring. The fun from this game (I think most people agree with me here) comes from winning tons of chases and hooking lots of survivors. For survivors it winning chases, & preventing people from getting hooked. Imagine loitering around a hook for 10 minutes vs loitering for 5. One is much more tenable. Unless of course, you think killers are not people and are robots who will camp for hours just to win?
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186276#Comment_2186276
OK so it benefits the camp out the gate playstyle. Glad we got that worked out. Now I don't think it's hard to understand that if a strat get better more.will play it than if it's worse.
Now on to your killer playstyle. You said you avoid camping unless your in a bad position, ie your loosing the match right?
I've answered all of your questions. Longer games would make killers who having a camping strategy have a better time. However, it would also make your average killer have a better time. Now, can you please answer my questions? 1. Survivors have BT, Kindered, Decisive, and exhaustion perks to prevent camping/tunneling. What do killers have to maintain a camp/tunnel? BT is more meta than insidious.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186276#Comment_2186276
OK so it benefits the camp out the gate playstyle. Glad we got that worked out. Now I don't think it's hard to understand that if a strat get better more.will play it than if it's worse.
Now on to your killer playstyle. You said you avoid camping unless your in a bad position, ie your loosing the match right?
I don't think more people will try the 'camp out of the gate strat' because if games get longer, camping will get more boring. Again, please understand camping isn't fun. Smart killers will be forced to tunnel a survivor out of the game if generators go too quickly and they're in a bad position. No changing that. What I'm arguing for is to give more time to killers to actually display their skill.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186264#Comment_2186264
Sorry how do you decisive strike if your team us doing gens as you say the good survivors do when being camped?
Oh and just checking but are you saying that if two equally skilled players are against each other the survivor can avoid being caught for the entire match? Cause most people are prepared to admit the game is designed so survivors get caught which is why killers are faster and get faster as the chase goes on
Depends how badly they're being camped and if your attempts fail. Good survivors will know to not "beat a dead horse" and continuously attempt the save. Obviously you should make an attempt to get your teammate off the hook, that's what good survivors do.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186255#Comment_2186255
Well.lets look at it from multiple killer perspectives.
If you are a camp right out of the gate killer and then your particular playstyle of killer shall we?
I posted earlier about how increasing gen times would make it even better for the camping out the Gate killer, do you agree or disagree?
You're right, it would assist a 'camp out the gate killer' but it would benefit your average killer. Average killers always receive more bloodpoints and pips than camping killers. Yet I still disagree with your notion that camping is such a big problem. It's easily preventable. Kindered, BT, decisive, and an exhaustion perk all to prevent you from being camped and tunneled! Killers have..... Insidious to maintain a camp? Which combination is better?
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186243#Comment_2186243
Sorry if your good at the game you won't be on the hook the whole game? Since you said good players will do gens while your being camped could you tell me what a good player can do to get off the hook while there being camped so that they aren't being hooked the while game?
Or did you mean you won't be on the hook for the whole game becusse your going to be dead after a few minutes?
Win chases so you don't get hooked in the first place.... Don't like camping+tunneling? Bring decisive. You seem to keep glossing over the fact that it's a 1v4 where one side has plenty of perks to escape a camp and the other has little to maintain one.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186237#Comment_2186237
No I'm not saying that no matter the change camping will increase.
Infact I said a couple times that while increasing time would increase camping, reducing rime would reduce camping. So I'm not sure why you think that I don't think anything can be done.
It's impossible to know because it's never been tried.... Don't make basic assumptions. As a killer if gens went slower I'd be patrolling and chasing survivors more than I would be when camping a shorter game. Please approach it from both perspectives.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186232#Comment_2186232
Not sure what you think I'm going to get you with. I'm curious though hiw do you pip up if your just sitting on the hook, there's not much chance to pip up there, also it's not much fun
If you're good at the game you won't be on the hook the whole game.... If you can't win chases that's on you. Don't blame the killer for taking advantage of your weaknesses. This shouldn't be a problem if you're at rank one. Which is also why increasing gen times would force survivors to be involved in more chases, henceforth improving their skills, then preventing a large amount of gen jockey idiots from being present in rank 1.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186214#Comment_2186214
Well if you camping a hook from start to finish then you aren't doing anything else.
Lets say you know you need to camp for 1 min after your first catch for them to die. you know that is one minute where the other survivors are working on gens. If you know that it only takes those three 2 minutes to finish gens and escape then its dangerous to camp becusse catching 3 survivors in one minute after the guy dies is a short period of time so your probably better to run for the others and not try to camp I'm the first place.
On the other hand if you know it will take them say 10 more minutes than you can safely camp and still have plenty of time to go chase the other 3.
If the time is long enough it would even be better to fully camp the first survivor and then go and fully camp the second one too cause the time allows it
So you say regardless of what you do, killers will just camp camp camp everyone? Like I said, give them more opportunities to NOT camp, and they may end up not camping you. Your basic assumption is essentially that all killers are dirty campers? Please answer this basic question...... Do you believe killers want to camp to win? Do they always do it?
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186199#Comment_2186199
I agree it's not possible to stop 100 percent. It would be easy to significantly reduce it however, to the point it woukd no longer be such an issue.
The issue with increasing gen times would be that it would increase the viability of camping which would in turn increase camping.
Unless you can explain how it would reduce camping, but after I raised a couple points on that topic you kinda glossed over them with an its impossibly to stop camping comment, so I'm taking it your not refuting that it woukd increase camping viability. (Or insidentaly how shortening gen times would have the opposite effect.)
It's too bad becuase I like the idea of increased match time on its own but since it wiukd result in more camping I'm against it. unless camping was fixed, or if longer matches would somehow reduce camping I see it as a net loss.
And don't try to make this into a "gotcha" moment. If camping was such a big problem, survivors would constantly lose. Camping only works when survivors are stupid. If you do a gen or two, get chased for a while, and die being camped, you'll pip up and henceforth get matched with better survivors. Plenty of opportunities for you!
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186199#Comment_2186199
I agree it's not possible to stop 100 percent. It would be easy to significantly reduce it however, to the point it woukd no longer be such an issue.
The issue with increasing gen times would be that it would increase the viability of camping which would in turn increase camping.
Unless you can explain how it would reduce camping, but after I raised a couple points on that topic you kinda glossed over them with an its impossibly to stop camping comment, so I'm taking it your not refuting that it woukd increase camping viability. (Or insidentaly how shortening gen times would have the opposite effect.)
It's too bad becuase I like the idea of increased match time on its own but since it wiukd result in more camping I'm against it. unless camping was fixed, or if longer matches would somehow reduce camping I see it as a net loss.
Why do you automatically assume longer matches will increase camping? If the killer has more time to patrol generators and chase survivor, they'll be too busy to camp. I do understand your perspective, though.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186079#Comment_2186079
I notice you said as a Survivor if the killer is camping just do gens, that works for 3 of 4 survivors, what do you recommend if your the survivor in the hook?
As for why the killer would camp, its because it is effective, you say the killer won't camp if the game lasts longer, but then you mentioned it's only a last resort, so tell me as gens are currently if the killer is loosing he will camp, as it's his last resort. Now If gens take say 20 percent longer and the killer is still losing woukd he not still camp, as a last resort? Seems like all that increasing gen times would do is promote camping in killers who camp immediately, and do nothing for killers like you once you start loosing.
Based on what your saying you play like, the only way to prevent camping would be to play poorly so you don't feel it necessary to camp, which doesn't seem like good advise for survivors.
It's impossible to completely stop camping, unless you completely reshape the game. What I'm saying is that generators are a bigger problem. It's easier to do a gen (hold M1 for 80 seconds) than pull off a 1v3 camp. I never said I support camping, but at the moment I think generator speeds require more attention. Making generators more difficult to do will make the game more skill based. (Chasing and being chased) Also, camping is discouraged because you probably won't pip and I KNOW you won't get many bloodpoints. My problem at the moment is that I encounter more complaints about camping than generator speeds / skill, even though they are both big problems.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249599/camping
At the Green Ranks and better, Killers tend to Camp only if (and as long) as it bears results. In the newbie Ranks, Killers Camp simply because they don't know any better. What this means, if you keep running into people who stay near the hook, is that the Survivors are responsible. Stop making it worth their while, and they will move off. For example, I always do short patrols on my "first" hook. I'm not really camping per say, but doing an assessment of the Survivors, gathering intelligence. I need to know how altruistic they are because that bears on Generator pressure. If 1+ always comes on the run, I know how much pressure I'm asserting just by having one on the hook. Does that make sense? Likewise, if I see the first group is going to milk that first hook for all the repairs they can, leaving their teammate to potentially go to 2nd Stage (or right on the line) I have to play them very different. The reason I'm doing short patrols rather than full on camp is because the second I know they are milking, I'm off to the races to rebuild pressure. For a Killer, information is power. I have to be able to discern the psychology of those I'm chasing as early as possible, and altruism is one of the key factors.
More to the point, what most Survivors identify as Camping is nothing of the sort. Survivors incorrectly identify the behavior all the time without taking any responsibility, i.e. acknowledging their own part (usually major) in where the Killer operates. A good portion of the matches I play involve someone coming in for the rescue, me intercepting or just stumbling across them on my way out to run Generator routes. Instead moving away from the hook (leading me) in a straight line, as far as possible, they stay in the SAME area, allowing me to effectively do short patrols, almost requiring me to do it. Remember, at this point I now have TWO Survivors tied up and off Generators with one moving toward death. Chances are, and I'm well aware, another is now heading toward the hook because he/she sees the first would-be rescuer is tied up. That means I end up with THREE people off Generators. The longer that first would-be rescuer keeps running me in the same area, the worse it gets for the Survivors. Do you see my point?
I'm not Camping because 50%+ of my objectives are now in range. I'm simply playing the only sane strategy. Had the first would-be savior left the area with me in tow, the other person would have made the save, the fourth would have continued on Generators, and thus Otz's basic lesson (one Survivor must always be on a Gen.) is upkept. Now if the first person comes in, initiates a chase but I break off immediately and stay around the hook, yes... at that point I'm Camping. I could have any number of reasons why I'm doing it, but Survivors should take this information to heart and adjust how they are going to handle me. Perhaps I felt the first Survivor had too big a head start. If you break off your rescue run too early the Killer knows they aren't going to reach you. Like it or not, you have to put yourself in harms way if you want to be effective bait. Do you see where I'm going with that?
Far too many Survivors will take ZERO risks with themselves and wonder why the Killer Camps or Tunnels. If you don't make that chase viable, i.e. give the Killer of even having a chance of catching you, he/she isn't going to follow (at the good Ranks anyway). If you don't take that protection hit and vanish like a Ninja leaving the hurt Survivor as the only viable target, the Killer is naturally going to hit the same person again. If you see the Killer slug someone and 1-2 of you stay in plain sight running around, clearly hoping to get and heal the downed person, of COURSE the Killer is going to attempt to slug ALL of you. Why wouldn't he/she adopt the best option if you are making it easy for them? What most Survivors don't understand is that while Killers are brute force and will win most 1v1 exchanges (over time at least) the Survivors are the true POWER ROLE in that they make most of the choices which impact how a match flows. Predators react to the actions of prey to run them down or ambush them.
Thank you, sir. Survivors need to start bearing responsibility for their mistakes. If you lose to a camping wraith, you're an idiot. It's a 1v4 for a reason. Survivors have 3 hook phases and 3 life stages for a reason. If camping is such an issue, bring BT/decisive.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185734#Comment_2185734
Nit sure what your definition if badly is but for sake of argument let's say 4 gens done 1 hooks at the six minute mark. (You can correct this if you want whatever your definition is will work here)
Do you believe if they were still losing badly (ie 4 gens done first hook) but now the match is at say 8 min they wouldn't camp?
You think rhe killer is going to say to himself "well it's been 8 minutes so even though the match is still going badly for me I won't bother camping them, those extra 2 minutes make all the difference"
I'm going to go with that's ridiculous. If the killer would camp when the games not going well at the 6 min mark he'd do the same in the same situation at the 8min mark 10 min mark or 2 min mark.
That's why I fail to see how increasing gen tine woukd do anything other than encourage camping.
But maybe you can tell me something I said I can see how decreasing gen tine would discourage camping becuase it woukd limit thr killers effectiveness, care to weigh in on that point? (I'm not proposing gens should be made to go faster I'm just saying I think doing so would reduce camping)
The issue is you're approaching it from the survivor perspective. Because I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer, I understand it better than anyone. When I play survivor and the killer camps, you do generators. If you fall for the killers bait, that's on you. When I play killer, I never camp at the beginning of the game. If I camp I do it at the end of the game or mid-game if generators go quick. I'm pretty sure that's how most red rank killers / survivors approach it. To your generator point, if the game lasts longer the killer will be given more opportunities to chase rather than camp. If the game lasts 5 minutes vs 7 minutes, unless we're talking about yellow ranks, why would the killer camp? Do you think killers WANT to camp to win? No. It's a last resort. Finally, smart survivors will know how to deal with camping. BT exists, (recently buffed) along with decisive. You can take hits too. Camping can easily be countered. Remember, it's a 1v4 for a reason.
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@LilacandGooseberries said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185734#Comment_2185734
I understand at the end of the game for camping to get points. But I'm talking about camping at the very start, which has been the case for a while now.
I never encounter camping at the start, likely because I'm at red ranks and it seems like a terrible strategy.
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@DapperTrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185675#Comment_2185675
Eh, most killers don't take pleasure for camping and have to use it because it's effective. Everyone hates the "proximity to hook" penalty and if you camp you get less BP. For most it's a last resort because you had 3 gens pop in 1 minute, and just leaving whoever you just hooked means that person is gonna join the gen rush and you're gonna have 4 people doing gens when you have 2 left.
If killers weren't at risk of having the match end in 2 minutes if they don't tryhard they wouldn't have to resort to staying afk in front of someone they just hooked.
Precisely. Camping rarely (if ever) occurs at the beginning of the game. It's generally done when killers lose badly due to games ending in under 6 minutes.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185651#Comment_2185651
I'm not sure I follow, Killers camp becuase it's an effective way to win. If you increased the amount of time ot takes to do a gen wouldn't that make camping an even more effective strategy becusee they would have even more time to go and camp survivors without worrying the game will end.
I think you might mean reduce gen times to dissuade camping since it would mean that if they camped instead of chase others the gens will finish quickly and they will lose.
Or I suppose increase hook death time since that would also make camping less viable for the same reasons.
Or do you think Killers are going to simply stop camping if the game becomes easier for them to win with camping?
No. Most killers (aside from newer players) camp when they're doing badly, (because gens fly) if you make generators harder to complete killers will be more focused on chases. Either way, survivors need to learn to do generators if their teammates are being camped. It's not hard.
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Seems like every day there's a complaint post about camping. Camping at higher ranks wouldn't happen if gen times were increased or made more difficult to complete.