Kirby_of_the_Stars
Kirby_of_the_Stars
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- Kirby_of_the_Stars
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That's actually a pretty interesting concept, making some of the strongest survivor perks that are hard to balance as boons instead. I wonder what that would do to the meta. If something like Dead Hard was something a survivor actively had to place on a totem every time it went down, it could potentially balance out the time lost in chase extensions. I'm not sure how this would work or feel in practice, but it is interesting.
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@Nayru said:
the only bit i'd do for ghostface aside from cut base power cooldown a bit is make incapacitated survivors unable to reveal him (downed/hooked) and nix the whole 'successfully stalking --> exposing --> downing someone = lose nightshroud' aspect
basekit mind, not addon, he never should've had this much power lethargy in such a fast-paced game and relegating that to addons would be tragic
Actually, that isn't something I had considered. I'm glad you brought that up. Thinking off the top of my head, I'd say that I like the idea of being able to not be revealed by downed/carried/hooked survivors, in the sense that in other media, Ghostface often baits the hero into coming into his/her court by holding someone else hostage. However, I think that in this particular scenario, that comes with some caveats about promoting healthy gameplay, e.g., a hooked survivor cannot reveal a player, and thus solo players will be camped with no way to communicate it after hitting stage 2.
Another issue I am seeing when it comes to this idea is promoting the Ghostface player to plan and position. The main goal of this rework is to reward tactical awareness and preparation. If we were to consider being unable to reveal him when hooked, at the very least, it should come with a small window, enough to get out of the line of sight. Or, enough to reduce the distance of being revealed. Actually, a change where he can't be revealed by someone hooked but only at close distances could be a good thing. Hooked survivors have a better angle to reveal Ghostface because of raised elevation. If you, say, can't be revealed within a 16 meter radius, that takes the edge off of potential camping by a better margin while giving Ghostface a little wiggle-room when it comes to leaving the area.
But overall, while I like the idea of the comfort base-kit protection from losing Nightshroud while getting a marked down, I think that the aim should be to bring him up to a solid mid-tier or high tier with back-and-forth between the survivors, much like pre-rework Hillbilly. I personally don't want him to be too strong, or encourage unfun gameplay. Do you think that the ability to not be revealed by an incapacitated survivor would lead to camping?
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Actually I just had an idea on a rework to Furtive Chase I'll post on later once I workshop it. If people like it or have suggested changes, I'll add it to the main post body.
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They're doing such an amazing job right now. I think that these changes will shake things up to a massive degree, and I for one am excited about it. I think there is a lot of risk involved with what they're doing, particularly because of the way the game is coded, but I'm very proud they are taking that plunge. That said, I think, that if they take their time and really ensure it all ties together cleanly, I don't mind waiting however long this will take. Does anyone know a more direct avenue to contact any of the developers and the design team? I'd really like to thank them personally, as well as start a conversation about the design process and writings involved with the game.
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@Maliken I agree. I think the idea of adding more map-pressure as an option through add-ons is a good idea. Honestly, the idea of Ghostface having a for-fun gimmick of an add-on that supports a terror radius build on a stealth killer sounds like an interesting time as well, so I'm of the opinion that an idea like that should be workshopped.
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@DeafCommie Actually, I have a very detailed thread still on the page about a lot of these same problems, aside from the inconsistency with being revealed due to it often being a server issue and not a function of his power. Actually, if you could read it over and write some of your own ideas and suggestions, I'd appreciate it. Here is a link to his upcoming add-on rework: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/282174/upcoming-ghostface-add-on-rework-critical-essay#latest
To touch on your own post, I'd say that you hit the nail on the head for the first two bullets. The add-ons are unimpactful or middling at best. But what we agree upon most though is that there should be a reward for hitting a survivor while cloaked. Though, I would say that cutting the time in half as a base mechanic or staying in Nightshroud may not be the best way to handle it. In the rework I propose, Ghostface's power should be cut down to roughly the base with the Matchbook and Chewed Pen. However, several add-ons increase the recovery of his Nightshroud when revealed outside of a stealth hit. What this creates is a risk-reward dynamic between killer and survivor that better celebrates planning, awareness, and positioning. One of the biggest changes to his add-ons in addition to that is providing their bonuses mostly during stealth hits.
Super good post from you and I'd love for you to add some input to my own. I've consulted a lot of notable Ghostface mains and I hope to do so more often before this next mid-chapter drops. 👍️
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@Maliken I hope so as well! Yeah, I suggested a few add-ons for downing marked survivors. Though, it's hard because the kind of sensation add-ons like that is very in the realm of what perks do, much like how the Outdoor Security Camera you mentioned is similar to Barbecue and Chili. However, I would debate the Security Camera should stay the way it is, as it is a perfectly good add-on that gives a strong effect, while simultaneously rewarding the player for excellent gameplay.
Do you or anyone else have suggestions for potential effects for downing a marked survivor?
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@Kaitsja I can completely agree with that, and I do hope they notice as well. I'm hoping to spread this around and hopefully gather more input as well. Speaking of input, I decided to change the add-on you previously mentioned and opted for workshopping a marked down add-on that works more similarly to Dark Devotion. Likewise, add-ons that imitate perks are very welcomed, but are usually only included on the killer that comes with that perk. Personally, I think the idea of a GF add-on that works like a hybrid between Surge and Oppression, but in retrospect, an effect like Thrilling Tremors is much more akin to current add-on continuity.
Something I'd like to stoke more discussion on is add-ons for being revealed by a survivor. Rather than punishing the survivor directly, I think the most lore-accurate idea is to increase the terror radius, likening it to the adrenaline rush of being exposed. This isn't too strong, while leaving room for a gimmicky terror radius build on an unlikely candidate like Ghostface.
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@Kaitsja said:
I only have one bone to pick with this entire thing and it's this: "Purple: Hitting a survivor while cloaked will apply the Oblivious status effect for 30 seconds. +6 Seconds to Nightshroud recovery rate when revealed by other means."
From the standpoint of someone who mains Ghostface and also plays survivor, oblivious is a rather redundant status effect for a stealth killer to apply. Oblivious hides your terror radius from afflicted survivors, which would be helpful if you were playing a non-stealth killer. But since you already have undetectable from Night Shroud, it's a useless status effect.
Oh, that's totally understandable. The reason for this potential idea is somewhat similar to using Dark Devotion, able to leave the survivor in question without their knowledge. Simply a spit-balling idea for an add-on that would leave room for the "hit and run" playstyle that some like, while not being as punishing as say, the general idea from the reworked Ghostface Caught on Tape add-on. The status for the purple add-on, should there be one, can be any status really. Honestly, I think it only needs to go as far as the green, but I spent almost 6 hours writing yesterday and I threw the kitchen sink at it.
Definitely his most important add-on section though, in my opinion. How do you personally feel about a much shorter recovery time, with his better add-ons adding to that time? I feel that's the core idea I want to push.
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The pasted above may be organized in a more confusing manner, as underlined text, indentations, bolded text, and bullet points did not carry over from the Word document I originally wrote this on!
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@TripleSteal said:
It might make sense to duplicate this question on dbd mobile discord.
It could be that someone randomly knows it here, but all in all dbd mobile has a separate dev team that only appears on their discord server.
Thank you! I'll check there just in case. I appreciate it.