Jonesnz
Jonesnz
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381143#Comment_3381143
How long does it take without a personal trainer? plus how long should it take before a rework is considered.
Even if it took longer, it's good to have higher skill ceiling killers, most games have them. Widow from Overwatch is a good example.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382424#Comment_3382424
Why does otz opinion matter more than most? He is a fogwhisperer. He actually job for behavior is keeping the game healthy, half of his recommendations have gone into the game already? That's why he is not just some streamer. If anything your just some guy on a forum.
"He is the King, so he must be right" Biggest elitism energy here mate, that is all I can say.
you shown with evidence you simply dismiss it
You mean when Im shows non credible evidence. Some Youtuber isnt a good enough sample size.
when people give valid reasons for why billy does not deserve this nerf you either default to the addons are overperforming without even consulting why that is the case( not seeing the big picture)
I am yet to see a valid reason besides hearsay about those two addons, I even addressed that in my response. But I dont think bHVR even wants it that way. Addons being essential to usage of a Killer is just a bad idea.
or simply ignore it in your response. You cherry pick what you want to argue against and your ego simply ignores the rest.
If there is something you want me to address, simply @ my name and say "I want you to address ... "
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382517#Comment_3382517
From the looks of it, it seems like they only judge add-on usage and performance relative to that killer's other add-ons. So if a killer only has a handful of add-ons that do anything, of course they'll be picked more than the rest of that killer's add-ons, and look like they're overperforming. This is the case with Billy.
You cant really have an addon be that essential. Ill bet you half a camel that isnt the intention or public policy I think bHVR is fully aware that most people dislike Hillbilly's addons, if not then they can survey for that information (which maybe they should) but keeping an overperforming addon in the game, just because you guys feel its the only addons you got is not gonna fly I think.
Nearly half of Blight's add-ons are ridiculously strong, so it makes sense that there is more variety in add-on usage rates, but it's possible the skill required to play Blight depresses their performance stats.
Now I have seen whataboutism on this forum, and ofc some systems are related. But Blight is 100% not related to Billy, and yet he has been brought up again and again. Some other killer's addons not being touched isn't an argument for not touching a completely different killer. I really don't know why you guys try that. Blight will get his nerfs for sure, bHVR isn't a hypocrite for washing the floor when the hedge needs trimming too. Those are unrelated.
They're obviously balancing based off of stats that look like outliers without asking why they're outliers, or in the case of Blight, why certain add-ons aren't outliers despite being oppressively strong after a player reaches a certain skill level.
If those addons are outliers in every billy build that overperforms, they still need to be toned down. I dont see how saying "they didnt ask why" is even a good reason, first of all you assume they dont know how those addons work and second it disregards the question if its intended for those two addons to be essential. which I dont think is a train bHVR is running on.
Idd like for you to adress if you think those two addons are intended to be essential high mmr enabler addons.
This is why I and so many others refuse to give BHVR the benefit of the doubt; not only do they not release the data, they don't bother explaining why the change is necessary, especially after Engravings have essentially done the exact same thing for 7 years. But now they're suddenly too strong? That just reeks of incompetence.
Oof thats is rough Sailor. But I actually think the engravings have just risen since the last rework, slowly becoming part of overperforming billys again and again. idk how that is incompetency. Seems like a timely reaction to me.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382548#Comment_3382548
BHVR don't nerf overperforming addons. They never did. Instead they nerf addons with high pick rates. Also let's not pretend that Engravings are overperforming. They aren't. Because Billy isn't overperforming. If they were really after overperforming addons Blight would have gotten nerfed a long time ago.
I don't see how you can demonstrate that bHVR does not nerf overperforming addons without access to the stats which you don't have. So how exactly do you know this besides your opinion? Also you might wanna look above about that Blight argument too.
BHVR are either trying to end what they started nearly 3 years ago (killing Billy for whatever reason) or they once again do random stuff that no one asked for. Have you ever heard someone call for a nerf to Billy's Engravings? Because I haven't.
Someone being mad about an addon is not required for bHVR to nerf it, like can you imagine. "Sorry, we cant nerf something because we have not received a complaint." Like come on. There is no way in Hell bHVR operates like this.
You are right that Hillbilly is overdue for some changes and I think most people agree with that.
This is why I advocate for a full Billy Rework, I think bHVR is just doing some routine maintenance on a Killer that really out to get a rework. But really they are not working hard on it, they just tweak a numbers that are overdue. I think if Billy needs some changes, but that requires an entirely diffrent campaign and as we seen in this thread. People dont want him reworked in case they lose the last 7 years of their life.
You're telling us you spoke to a former designer at BHVR? How is anyone supposed to believe that? Until you can back up that claim everyone will just take it as made up, no offense.
Yeah, its just an tidbit. This is why I believe it, I don't expect you to take that reason as justified.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382592#Comment_3382592
Addons can also be OP without overperforming compared to the rest.
OP in a certain situation are SITUATIONAL then, not OP. Even so if that was true, that means those situations happen far too often and that would still justify them being toned down. There is no way bHVR is gonna rework all maps just for one Killer to make sure those situations dont happen as much.
The "hard gameplay" we love is curving, and without these addons the survivor needs to make significant mistakes to get curved. So if we nerf the good curving addons, we wont curve nearly as much. Which is sad, because most billys and most survivors like curves.
I don't think sliding around a Car like it has butter or soap on it is what bHVR was going for. Neither with Blight. I have never had a Billy do that to me and felt, wow great design, really fair and balanced. I don't recall seeing bHVR putting out a statement on that. if you can find me one Ill accept it.
About the people and polls that are not official, I really think you ought to do a really big poll to figure that out, but I don't think bHVR will release the polling.
Why do you think he needs a rework and not a Buff?
- Clunky and unwieldy to play.
- Terrible addons.
- Curving (which I don't think is intentional.)
it would be easier to address all this in a new Power, rather than repurpose the repurposed Power from 2016.
"You cant really have an addon be that essential." you can, and his engravings are essential. If you hate the killer or have something against the killer, go play Knight, it seems you're a party killer anyways. It also seems you're on a warpath trying your absolute best to get this man nerfed even harder than he has been over the years. Maybe you got paired against a Billy that stood at one tile and went left n right trying to curve for 50 years, but that ain't all of us. Objectively speaking Billy is more fun to vs than a camping 3 gen strat killer, there is no disagreeing here, it's pure facts. I'm talking about Billy's who actually play optimally not stand at one tile for the entire game. Yes, as a Billy main myself, that can get boring. But at the end of the day, they're still having fun, and it isn't a camping 3 gen killer... so, always better regardless.
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Jones here, Billy main... 3000 hours with 38,000 saw downs. I agree 1000% percent with what Vel has said. Please do not go through with this change. It is absolutely wrong to change his engraving add-ons with a speed reduction, it's not needed. I understand the Dev's are looking at the kill count or kill rate for these add-ons but what they aren't understanding is that these add-ons have such a "high" kill rate BECAUSE they are the ONLY decent add-ons for Billy to make him viable. If they're the only add-ons being used, of course they will stand out from his other add-ons. Does this mean they need nerfed? No.. it's just common sense if the only add-ons being used are engravings due to the Dev's making his other add-ons useless, the kill rate will be the highest on the most used add-ons. Take Blight for example, he has multiple good add-ons, so the kill rate is balanced as Blight mains use all of them in variety, but the add-ons themselves are stronger than Billy's in a heartbeat.
His engravings already come with a massive charge up time, and missing a saw is very damaging against good players if they know what they are doing. Keeping curve Billy in DBD is harmless, it is actually something very fun to go against personally, and multiple will agree. Even Otz. Billy struggles enough, why do you think people run double engravings... it's because they're wanting to have fun since they don't want to play a killer like Skull merch, Knight, Nurse, and get very easy wins by camping 3 gens or downing survivors like flies. They want a challenge. BECAUSE he is HARD to play, takes dedication and focus, takes a long long time to even be able to use these add-ons at a decent level and execute curves. You can argue Billy is boring to vs because some go for curves the entire game by mind gaming one singular pallet, but that's beside the point, someone said that in the comment section here. It's completely irrelevant. You can argue these add-ons are strong but it's objectively not true.
Even if they do have a "high" kill count in some universe, they're no where near as strong as other killers add-ons. Again, they are what makes Billy, he is mainly used for the curving potential, no one wants to play backrev Billy, and m1 every loop, that's Bubba's job... now we are going to be punished for having fun, and be punished for using his saw to patrol gens across the map..... this is silly.