GameEnjoyment
GameEnjoyment
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Dude one of the matches I played a ghoul running third seal on a indoor map. Everyone had blindness the whole game and not only did we have to pick up our teammates but we didn't even know where they were because of Hex:Third Seal. Actual hellscape
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Yeah, every game this has happened to me they ran full slug build from the start of the game and never intended to hook anyone. That's what makes it so potent and irritating.
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Then I should technically have more experience in this than you. My survivor hours and killer hours are nearly equal.
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@PureDivinity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104071#Comment_4104071
i literally went against a slugging twins in solo queue while NO ONE had any anti slug/tunnel perks and we still got a 4 man out. So yes you survivors are skill-less. Lets say a ghoul has zero hooks, 1 gen left, and they’re on a winning streak. What do you want them to do? Hook because “survivors rule book” i never been salty to anyone, i been called a f@g and they also said they wish i got “r@pped” and “kms” because I slugged, i guess thats okay cus i slugged…
Well, I think you misunderstand. The killer slugging problem is less a problem on twins and more on killers like kankei and wesker who not only have a stronger power but far more mobility. Also, they don't slug because they are losing but they are slugging the whole game. They were never going for hook stages from the moment they hit the que button. I played a kankei who ran 3rd seal and sat at 5 gens the whole game just slugging
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@JordaJ6 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104134#Comment_4104134
Sure I’d be happy to share a few best practices to make slugging easier to work around.
-Once you are downed, focus on crawling to somewhere your teammates can help you, ideally a pallet but a window or tall tile can at least give them something to work with. Focus on recovering once you’re in a workable location.-If you crawl to a pallet, make sure you constantly adjust your position if your teammate in chase gets close to you so they have a reasonable chance to drop the pallet and force you onto their side and potentially stun the killer. Either way, this usually gives them enough time to finish your recovery and if they did get the stun, you’re both out of there and at least back in the game.
-Lastly, if you’re in a dead zone, or just in the inevitable bad spot, dying corner or as far away from where you think your teammates are, gives them as much time to reset and have every chance to come get you.
I hope this can be helpful, and this does require some patience I will concede that. I do feel for every solo queue champion who gets teammates that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground, but if individually, we all try to get better, everyone has more fun. You can only focus on what’s in your control. Plus, when you follow these tips, there’s a chance your teammates accidentally do the right thing too, if you never set them up for success, when then slugging looks incredibly oppressive.
Dang well I was hoping you would have something a little stronger but thats okay.
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@JordaJ6 said:
I’m sure this will get downvoted, but I play 50/50 and as a surv, whether I’m with my seal team 6 of a swf or playing solo, I love when a killer tries to slug because it requires a change in play style and keeps me interested. Some of my favorite matches of all time have been from Blights who think they’re MomoSeventh trying to speedrun with a slug build.
I enjoy the challenge I swear I’m not rage baiting. Honestly, it takes some real stones from a killer to think they can down everyone fast enough to not hook at all and win.
Maybe I’m crazy for wanting the smoke, but I earnestly think if you could look at it as a chance to play against a different than normal play style and include some other things like, how many gens got done, how well did I position myself to get picked up, things about how close the match got vs “did I escape or did I die”, you might REALLY enjoy yourself because you’re enjoying more than just escape vs died.Sincerely,
Your average toxic Trickster and basic Sable player <3
Yeah, I think it can be a fun opportunity but, I think they general community would think otherwise. If you spend most your game on the ground, it stinks pretty bad but, if the survivors can find genuine counterplay and have an intense game with the killer that's great. It's just most of solo que survivors can't really find the counterplay. Maybe add an additional comment on what you find works.
Thank you for the feedback
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@terumisan said:
unbreakable exists
Yeah, it does exist. The problem is that in hard-core slugging matches it really doesn't make a difference. You're still injured, you have to wait too fully recover and you can only use it once. Also, just because I have this problem with killer just because I bring it doesn't mean my whole team is going too. If the whole team had unbreakable yeah, it probably would make a difference but, the pick rate of unbreakable isn't nearly high enough for that kind of counter play. The reason swft deal with killers so easily is because the whole team utilizes these kinds of perks so that they can win. Swft expect killers to go to these drastic measures. Solo que players mostly just play to enjoy the game and use what perks they enjoy. On another note, just because the whole solo que team bring unbreakable doesn't mean they are good enough at the game to get value from the perk. Someone from a swft who has extensive experience will use it and get more looping time on the killer, but most solo que players won't be able to act upon it. Not everyone in every game is going to be crazy good at the game.
You do make a valid point though. Even with what I mentioned if more people brought unbreakable into a game it would likely make a bigger difference in the outcome of the match. It could also somewhat solve the problem of being on the ground the whole game since you have a second chance to loop the killer.
Thank you for the feedback
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@Arcturus said:
I mean I don't think any survivor on the planet actually has fun in a match where they're getting hardcore slugged by a Twins or something, unless they came in with an Anti-Slug build or have a well equipped SWF. The majority of the playerbase, including me, plays solo queue, and even more than that don't use perk slots on Anti-Slug. That second part is because out of the two, tunneling is far more common, which is why you'll see a lot more DS than Unbreakable.
Perks, whether DS or old Borrowed Time or Unbreakable, have always really just been bandaid fixes to problems, but in reality no one (including killers, who I feel often are almost required to run at least one gen slowdown if not two) should be forced to run certain perks to have fun in the game. It just ends up punishing players who play more casually, and then when those players get upset they're told to cry about it because they should have put on the boring meta perk.
The issue with the slugging problem in particular (besides that it's much less common than tunneling) is that any Ant-Slug system runs the risk of punishing casual killer players (which is also the reason why the Anti-Camp meter is very forgiving for the killer). I've seen a lot of different proposals, all with their own flaws when you sit and discuss them. Obviously there was BHVR's failed attempt at an Anti-Slug system, I've also seen people say that two downed survivors should be able to help each other up (maybe after a certain amount of time on the floor), I've seen someone say downed survivors should get automatically hooked after a certain amount of time, and I've even messed around with my own idea of increasing recovery speed and the recovery cap every time you get downed without being hooked until eventually after being downed 3-4 times you can pick yourself up.
But like I said, all of these solutions have their flaws. As it is, no, the vast, vast majority of survivors find slugging games extremely boring and frustrating. But unfortunately I'm not sure if there's a solution that killer players would be okay with as well, so who knows if it will actually ever happen (although who knows, a lot of killer mains weren't happy about Anti-Camp either but it does absolutely nothing 95% of games and it can easily be played around to camp anyway, and that got added).
You make a very valid point that slugging is built into the twin's powers but, to be totally honest I don't experience that kind of hard-core slugging on the twins due to the low pick rate.
I experience the worst kind of slugging against a high mobility killer like Kaneki or Wesker. Usually they will run Ruin, Couldrophopia, Sloppy Butcher and maybe one information perk. This gameplay has really got on my nerves recently because I played someone doing this 3 times in a day. The problem is that the killer has such high mobility and they can utilize their power to find new survivors constantly creating a mass slug. When the game starts it seems like the game will be find. Every match this has happened the first survivor loops the killer around 1 generator so, 90 seconds. So, three generators get done if all survivors were on a generator. But, two generators are the closest a match like this has gotten for me to escaping. After that first chase that lasted three gens you think you're going to win but the killer slugs the survivor and begins finding others and slugging them. With one survivor is on the ground it's the same as a hook stage and one person should unhook, one should be in chase, and one should do a generator. But, the problem begins with the person in chase having to loop the killer on a near emptied map or completely empty map when it comes pallets especially if it's a smaller map. They tend to die quickly leaving two people on the ground. Now both other survivors have to get them up off the ground. Meaning no generator progress. Additionally, during that chase the time it took to get the other survivor off the ground was slow due to sloppy butcher and coulrophobia for some survivors. With that some survivors don't immediately go for the save on the slugged survivor because they don't understand what's happening, they just don't think they should do it or, maybe something else. This then eventually leads to one survivor dying on the ground leaving one survivor for chase one to pick up the slugged teammate and none for a generator and by this point the map is totally emptied of all pallets and chases don't last long. So, even if the survivors manage to heal the slugged teammate they still have to full heal which could take a while with sloppy butcher. They need to full heal to give them a chance in chase but, it takes too long and the other teammate gets slugged.
This is a problem but, it's one that is incredibly difficult to nerf. There is no reliable way to stop this kind of gameplay and although I think bhvr should do their best to find a way to stop it from happening I don't see much hope on the matter. There may be nothing we can do about it.
Your comment makes great sense on the matter but, I do hope there can be some kind of change that can be added to the game to prevent this style of play.
Thank you for your feedback it helped me grasp more of the situation
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@PureDivinity said:
Funny how you say i struggle of getting 4ks without slugging while i done a 4k streak, and you said “slugging isn’t fun”like boohoo pallet density isn’t fun and they’re not fixing it. Yall survivors are so incredibly annoying. Dc that dc this like yall are so skill-less
Look gamer stop being salty. I was asking for survivor opinions, and it seems like you care more on having killers dominate survivors. Also, I said nothing about getting a 4k without slugging. I really don't care if you can get a 4k streak and if you can then why be you always complaining about how survivors have it so nice. Additionally, I play both killer and survivor and I was a killer main before a survivor main. Pallet density is just a map thing. Some maps have crazy pallets or loops. Garden of Joy to this day is the most broken survivor map in the game and it should be nerfed but, some maps like one of the autohaven wreckers or sand maps only have shack and no main building. The map is so small it has a lack of pallets and loops. On top of having less pallets and tiles basement is on the middle of the map and some killers get an easy basement hook, and the game is completely over. So maps complement some killers crazy good and others don't. I play singularity which is a killer that gets wrecked on indoor maps. Last game I played with him I got a 0k because I was on lery's and my three-gen spread was too wide. I understand killer frustration but, it's really map dependent a lot of the time and like I just explained it is for survivors too. Now, then again if survivors are in a swft then they should win every game but, most players are solo que and without that coordination and skill level in a swft killers tend to dominate survivors.
I read your comment again and came to another point to invalidate your argument. Most people don't play games to be the best of the best when it comes to the game. They play to have fun and release stress from other parts of their day. If a survivor dc's from a match its most likely because they're not having fun which is could either be a result of playing bad or because the killer they are playing isn't making the match fun. Maybe they are getting hard-core slugged or tunneled. The anti-slug and anti-tunnel perks aren't for making the game unplayable for killers but, to give survivors chances to enjoy the game. If you played survivor and got hard-cored tunneled and gotten out of the match quick you wouldn't have enjoyed it.
Saying that survivors are so skill-less is a terrible argument to be making because you shouldn't have to be good at a game to enjoy it. You should be able to have fun as a casual player. Most of the player base aren't super serious survivors but rather people who play casually for fun. This now shows that you seem to be the salty gamer and takes the game far too seriously. Please go take your salt elsewhere.
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@PureDivinity said:
you survivors has so many pallets, anti slug perks, anti tunnel perks, with swf and you’re crying about killers slugging?
First of all, it's not "has" it is "have" and second, I was not asking killers for an opinion. Thirdly, it's not about the strategy being broken it's about the gameplay for survivors not being fun. The idea was to point out the survivor side doesn't enjoy playing against a killer doing this and most people just dc against the killer doing this. I want to fix this because I want both sides of the game to be having fun because ultimately the point of playing a game is to have fun. Sure, the killer has loads of fun playing this way but, survivors hate playing the game when the killer does this. I do not think it's a problem with balancing. It's a problem with enjoying playing the game. Also, you said "with swf". The majority of the player base is not a swf but, solo que. So, if that's your argument then I think it's incredibly weak and you are just a killer who can't get a 4k. So, maybe you're the one crying about the game.