Cropsy
Cropsy
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I include SWF in my posts here about balance but I wouldn't be interested in turning off SWF matches as a killer. The problem is not the coordination of SWF. The problem is these tend to be the matches where as a killer you really feel the lack of balance in the game being pushed to their extremes. If those balance issues weren't a thing, there's nothing to be pushing. SWF just reveals the brokenness of the game. It's not something I want to see people punished for.
And especially because I play SWF all the time. When I play SWF, we are not that entitled e-sports wannabe, teabagging group. No one in my group even knows how to do the 360 flick that's pervasive now--or for however long it has. Playing with friends is the main thing keeping me in this game. Ideally, it'd be the killer role that keeps me in the game, except that hasn't been fun in a long time. First it wasn't fun because it took ten minutes to find a match as a killer, and now it's not fun because the killer game itself is rarely fun.
I'd rather just see the game fixed with updates to the core game that fix balance and stopping with all the perks that solely exist to counter and then be countered later by more perks.
And when I play with friends and they use BT, it feels cheap every time. Even when I'm benefiting from it, it's obviously too much and a pure entitlement perk.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707662#Comment_2707662
The whole purpose of perks like Borrowed Time is to counter facecamping, one of the most hated of killer tactics, and greatly helps with tunneling off of the hook, also hated. There's a reason it is run by so many survs. That perk with your change becomes pretty much useless, as would the lesser used perks involving the hooks. Sabo for instance would also be useless.
No way most players whon play both roles would support this change imo.
I don't give a crap about what the point of perks like BT are. That's part of the problem. BHVR has taken perks too far, sending mixed messages, and creating this stupid cyclical approach of counters to counters to counter counters.
I think you're stuck in the screwed up mindset BHVR's mishandling of balance has created. You're stuck on the idea that you should be able to unhook when a killer is near. You're stuck on the idea that you should be able to sabotage a hook like some military special ops when the killer is a few steps away from you. You're stuck on the idea that the killer should go wherever you want them to go. BHVR has fed the monster of entitlement and the toxicity that comes out of it.
The best counters to facecamping are A) Survivors go do gens and play the freaking game. B) Make core changes to the game for killer that are more enjoyable than face camping. Making it less enjoyable by giving survivors super powers and loops only makes killers feel like they have to micromanage and protect any gain they make even more.
If we could imagine the killer as a horse, holding the reigns too tight creates resistance and a need for killer to get desperate to get control back. You have to ease up and create more of a sense of freedom and power. BHVR and survivors like you who think they're entitled to constantly pull on those reigns create the exact problem you say is one of the most hated tactics.
Even then, if you ease up on the reigns, a horse will be a horse and a killer will be a killer. They might still choose to facecamp. But it will only be the dumb and boring players who do. That's the part crybaby, entitlement, survivors have to deal with. Survivors have to have something they're surviving. Right now they're more thrivers. That's nice in real life to be a thriver instead of survivor. But it ruins the feel of this game for killers. And there's no game without killers.
Do people really not know this game is asymmetrical?! Killers are supposed to have a threatening edge! They are the 1 in 1 vs 4. So dumb. And I've been maining survivor the last few years. Even with that experience, I don't forgive the stupidity.
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Odd that a lot of comments are that it's too big or easy to get lost in.
I feel it's a small map. I think it's a good thing it plays differently. Different dynamics because of a map are a welcome addition to shake up a game where balance issues around the same things are constantly a problem. The only times I get lost are, contrary to what someone else said, because the layout is nowhere near entirely the same as the actual RPD map. Even then I'm not really lost, it's more a turn isn't there or a path I think will be there is blocked--I binged the RE2 remake about a week before actually having this map come up in DbD. Even though it is different, familiarity with the setting still helps with pinning down which area is which. Not like you can't get that from just playing the map in DbD more than once.
TLDR: Different doesn't mean bad. It's not the same layout as RE2. Learn the map. Stop crying.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707132#Comment_2707132
If any surv instantly becomes exposed when near the killer, how would they break up a facecamper ever? All the killer would have to do is hug the one on the hook and mow em down as they try to save.
No no no
They don't. It's the killer's choice. Hooks are the killer's part of the game. Gens are the survivors part of the game. Even with such a poor execution, it's obvious that's the game's base framework.
When it comes to facecamping, survivor complaints demonstrate zero responsibility when they still have moves. Don't go for the unhook when the killer is facecamping. Do go repair gens to draw the killer away or open the gates and get out. Either way, super easy solution. Again, the game needs to be threatening to survivors! Everyone isn't entitled to make it. Survivors are not conjoined quadruplets.
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@Torsti56 said:
Sure, I'll go play as a Twins and take Charlotte to first gate and Victor to other gate making entity to block them both. This is why people should think first before starting to throw "gameplay changes" because let's be honest, 70% of them are simply just bad. There is some good suggestions but majority of them are straight out bad.
Speaking of thinking first, it's an idea. Not a set in stone change. That kind of simplistic black and white thinking in which there's no imagination for how to deal with exceptions doesn't really add anything here. Program it with an exception so the twins both have to be there. *Yawn*
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That is definitely the problem. Not enough core changes.
I sure hope the BHVR approach isn't solely about money or else much needed core changes will never happen. Right now it feels like, 'You don't like how survivor/killer beat you with ____ perk/ability because you had no way to counter? Buy the new survivor/killer with perks and abilities that counter the perks and abilities you hate!'
Just sell the freaking cosmetics and work on the actual game instead of predictable counters for counters that will inevitably require new counters to counter them.
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First, any solution shouldn't be perk or ability based because it will just end up countered by the next set of dlc they release and the devs need to start making changes to the core game to build back some sort of integrity and balance. I understand new dlc/perks gets them more money, and they probably don't mind making stupid design moves if it keeps the cash flowing, but if I'm going to flat out stop playing this garbage since the fun is being sucked out of it, chances are I'm not the only one.
That aside, this has me thinking that survivors could automatically become exposed when they're in extremely close proximity to the killer for a duration that's longer than running by the killer. Stand by the killer for 2-3 seconds and you become exposed.
Honestly, I think this would be a fantastic idea overall. The killer gameplay suffers because skilled survivors aren't afraid of the killer. The killer isn't a threat. So, this would help with all the other posts and threads about how stressful or zero fun killer gameplay. Killer could actually be a threatening role like it should be.
I'd say the devs need to add a lot of universal (not requiring abilities or perks) terror radius/proximity effects to the killer in order to start fixing gameplay and make killers actually a threat. If we listen to other posters saying you have to manage your expectations for what fun or success is as a killer, it would at least give them something else to the experience to know you at least terrorized the survivor in this/that way, with whatever particular outcomes. They're obviously pushing the game to need to be more deviousness focused than sacrifice focused. So own up to it BHVR!
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It's true that a person's feelings and stress are their own. But everyone is playing a game for the feeling and, with the exception of games looking to troll the player, all games are designed to play into a person's feelings--to make you want to play. Whether that's something demonstrative emotional or just the feeling of accomplishment and productivity.
So yeah that's fine to say what are your own expectations you bring to the game and maybe you feel the impact of those not being met too much. But that doesn't mean it's invalid to say there's a design flaw that this game can create the space for so much stress as a killer. Expectations for the game that you won't be clowned, dominated, have no moves to accomplish any of the designed objectives isn't just a personal mental health problem. Those things fairly don't fit into the role and expectations for a horror movie type killer in-game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think it's important to add, but this is one of the only multiplayer games on the market that allows camping without penalizing it. Other games utilize safe zones, fresh spawn areas and penalities to keep their player base from camping, precisely because it prevents other players from playing the game. You would never hear a dev from any major development company behind an arena or shooter game actively endorse camping another players spawn or death point.
The only reason it's allowed here is because it's slowly been justified using roleplay mindset, not because it's at all fair. But unfortunately, the game is far to unbalanced to be able to easily solve it without just shifting the camping to the other side.
Apples and monster truck tires. Ridiculous false equivocation. An arena or shooter game is not at all comparable. When a survivor is hooked, they're not waiting to respawn into the match fresh with a new life. You get one life in this game and when the match is on, the match is on. No safe zones, no respawns, no timeouts.
I'm not familiar with any games that penalize for camping a "death point." But that makes no sense either. Death point means you already played the game and, again, you blew it.
The game isn't even over when you get camped! Killers can't body block the hook and grabbing survivors when they unhook is broken and doesn't trigger as it should. Add in BT, SWF, and killers overall not being an intimidating force in the game and that means you and the other survivors still have LOTS of moves to make even when a killer camps.
Too bad MMR doesn't get me survivors like you when I play killer. I might actually have fun if I could play against survivors that don't understand how broken this game is in their favor.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702698#Comment_2702698
I agree, however too many killer powers and perk simply negate stealth. Interestingly when DBD initially focused on stealth the game was more balanced as the match was slower, allowing for more time for killers go get downs. Unfortunately too many killers now simply remove that option.
It’s true. I think the devs have dug themselves a hole relying on perks and powers that are a continuous one up manship of counters for counters. New killers and survivor perks aren’t even creative. They’re designed to put out the balance dumpster fires the last DLC created.
I liked the old gameplay before infinite loops became a skill people developed. You could even do well running no perks as a killer or survivor against others with full perks maxed out. Not anymore with stuff like lethal pursuer or borrowed time. My only issue was how long it took to get into a match back then as a killer. So breaking the fun for killer fixed that I guess. I can get into a match quick now.
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I'm not entirely clear how I feel about this because balance issues existed before MMR. Old system sucked. New system sucks. But I think the new system creates space for fine tuning that could eventually be good. Currently, I go from one really easy match as a killer, to an impossible match the next game. That spike is crap.
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I've been playing since launch. OP is spot on. And regardless of how those who rely on logical fallacies respond, one's experience or lack of experience with dbd doesn't negate the reality that it's much easier to be successful in dbd as a survivor than killer, or the reality that there is much less pressure involved in that success as a survivor than a killer.
Survivors have so much range for how to play the game. And there are separate categories that broad range of options can exist in. You have A) independent skills B) having three more survivors in the match as supports to help you C) perks that aren't just perks but also grant new abilities. Combine all three of those and survivors are stacked. Meanwhile, killer is so limited and slow in what they can do. And, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think killers have perks that create new abilities like dead hard, flashbangs, or boons that they can equip to any character they want?
Really, what OP has to say is why I joined this forum today. For a while now, I mainly play survivor. Which is a bummer because I'm a horror movie fan. I want to be playing killer but this game has sucked for killers for a while now. Anyway, I played several matches as a killer today. I think MMR gave me one easy match for a killer I never played before, which was honestly too easy. Outside of that it was a really steep increase in difficulty to the point that it's something other than difficult--it's near impossible--and the matches were the opposite of fun.
That downer, stressful intensity OP was sharing about, where you're getting clowned in a match and feel like you have no options to compete, that doesn't happen as a survivor. Survivors can always compete and it's no big if the individual player dies because the game keeps going without them. Killer can be getting screwed over but is still responsible for the game. There is no dbd without a killer. Though I've started putting down that responsibility and alt-tabbing to watch a show while I wait for the survivors to teabag their way to the exit. Playing this game as killer is lame and not fun.
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Is facecamping really an issue? Seems like the killer can't block the hook.
I tried to do it today, and a survivor was still able to unhook even though I was standing right in front of the hook. So yeah, get all your SWF buddies or borrowed time randos who've learned the game has made killers a minimal threat and have an unhook party in front of the facecamper.
OP should really start by asking why killers facecamp or tunnel. I did it today because MMR put me in matches with SWF and pro-loop parkour survivors that are beyond my skills. I may as well just stand there like I'm AFK. If I get someone on the hook, I may as well keep them there. Feels better and just as effective as trying to play the game any other way. And I may as well tunnel an annoying player that's beyond my skills because I'll be lucky to get one kill in match they exist in. It may as well be them.
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Not too easy to play. And looping isn't fun. Good survivors have the edge.
Looping overall is a lame mechanic. It's like an annoying version of the chase part of duck, duck, goose without the endorphins from actually moving. At launch, stealth was the skill survivors needed, which is a better fit for a game called Dead by Daylight--not tea-bagging/parkour by daylight.