ChozoChorizo
ChozoChorizo
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- ChozoChorizo
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Experienced the same bug on Campbell's Chapel against ghost face. The bug did not seem active throughout the whole match, as it seemed to work normally for the first few break actions the ghost face did.
My best guess is that it's either associated with cancelling a break action early, such as ending the break action on a gen before it completes, or picking up a player before the alert effect ends, as it seemed to activate after performing a break action and immediately picking a player up.
I also do not have any photo evidence or gameplay, but I can confirm the bug happens.
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Don' know what the agitating title is all about, maybe it's just that I'm new here, but It really doesn't look like it's helping the case you're trying to make in this post. You seem to be going off personal opinions that you're applying to "probably the majority of Billy players", which is not productive and makes you come off as biased.
Yeah, there were a lot of complaints about Billy, but you can't just expect BHVR to change everything that was complained about. There is more than just the killer player base to cater to, I'm sure you are aware, and making such an ignorant claim about the fact that every complaint about Billy was valid or didn't conflict with what other players thought were a problem with him is quite frankly, close-minded.
I also feel like you think you're in the majority when you say that these tweaks aren't enough to keep Billy players playing Billy, when honestly I think these changes put Billy in a "better" spot, as in he's more agreeable for both teams now. When I say this, I mostly mean a decent group of survivors who really do think Billy can be too strong. I think I can safely say that most killer mains thought Billy was a consistently powerful and, more importantly, a fun killer. That's what these changes are aimed at, in any case: Making Billy less restrictive and more fun, while still bringing back his snowball and add-on potential so that he's less amazing at everything, something old PTB Billy was struggling with getting a good balance of. I assure you, as a Billy main, these PTB changes actually make him more appealing to me. Managing an overheat is an interesting concept which I think they've made reasonable now and even if his add-ons are really different and consistently "worse" you neglect the fact that numbers can change to make these add-ons better. Sure, they may not ever be what they were before, but just because they're weaker now doesn't mean they're terrible changes that will ruin the game.
I also flat out disagree with the notion that Billy without add-ons is too weak in live, I think he is still great without add-ons and with them, he can be a bit overclocked. That being said, don't think for a second that I'll miss some of his add-ons, I enjoyed playing with Insta-saw but I can safely say that they are a bit too strong. It kind of takes the timing and positioning strategy out of using the saw, in my eyes. Having those add-ons removed is fine by me, sure it was fun while it lasted but acting like it wasn't crazy good and kind of sucky to play against isn't being productive either. Now that this overhaul to his add-ons is coming, though, I'm gonna be honest in saying I think these add-on changes are healthy for his overall diversity in gameplay. When once before there were maybe 4 meaningful alterable statistics, there are now far more unique things you can do by altering your add-on builds. It's not like the add-ons can change statistically either, when you assumed early on before the developer response that they weren't touching add-ons, it just drove home how you were entirely expecting nothing to change with Billy, only to have a dev response imply the contrary and to have you respond to that with a shift to blame. Instead of it being your mistake for assuming the add-ons were not being looked at, it was the dev's mistake for not telling you that they were considering it. Just swallow your pride, honestly. This makes you look petty and childish.
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One time someone called me a cute killer, they were a rank 1 SWF back when I was like rank 17 and I think they either felt bad or realized halfway through the match what kind of killer I was.
Their entire team was pretty nice about it and we had a good laugh but I specifically remember that person because they left a comment on my profile
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Wraith has some pretty fun things he can do with his terror radius, or at least his emanating "sounds". Coxcombed Clapper and "The Ghost" make him really hard to detect when uncloaking, leading to some really fun gen pick-ups. Bone Clapper can really mess with survivors if you know how to play Wraith really well, the muffled sound becomes about as indicating as Spirit's vacuum so it can force complacency and fear much like the previously mentioned confusing TR Doctor build.
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Probably weasel builds. Like, the kind of builds that survivors design to give them as many shots at completely nullifying good killer play. I'm not particularly bothered by any second chance perks on their own, I just don't like when they're used in tandem with each other to make the killer feel like they're being punished for doing their job. It's just demoralizing for me, honestly.
As an example, I won't talk about all builds that I dislike in this way but I'll mention this one:
DS and Unbreakable combined is, in my opinion, the ultimate fun sponge against killers, because either you slug and see them walk away scot free or pick them up to eat a DS that will give them enough distance to do another chase. Almost always a catch 22 in that situation with no good answers for the killer and a free second chance for survivors. I'm fine with second chances existing, but not free second chances. If I wanted that I would be playing Monopoly.
All this being said, it's not really like I can shame these people for using these builds. They're good builds, I just think that they wash out the fun a bit. And hey, if the survivor doesn't care about fun games, I won't stop them because I'm not their mother. Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the game though.
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If you want my honest opinion, I think second chance perks are fine. They make each game and each survivor interesting to play against in their own way, even if I get totally wrecked by them.
Dead Hard I actually enjoy fighting against, it's a really solid survivor perk and I really just can't get mad at people who use it well against me. The only unsatisfying thing about it is doing DH solely for distance, which can feel a little irksome sometimes because it shows me that the user isn't confident in their timing and is looking for an easy way to extend a chase. I really can't blame those that use it like this though, it's just something it's built to do well.
Decisive Strike can be interesting before it's even used, because it can be tipped off by the existence of an Obsession and by how an individual or even a team plays. While it's in play, it basically forces a slugging situation unless you're in a good position to eat the strike and or they miss the skill check, which is really funny to figure out in endgame chat. Honestly, I have no problem with it on its lonesome.
Adrenaline is to be expected in most cases, I'm never really surprised if it procs at the last gen and if someone was lucky enough to be in a chase with me while the last gen gives them a free sprint burst and health state, then honestly good for them. They made that tradeoff when they chose it and knew they would be down a perk for basically the rest of the game.
Unbreakable is a mega sad moment when it saves a four man down but eh, what can you do. It's certainly the one I forget about the most, so having it go in a match is a big surprise for me even if it's pretty meta. It mixes things up, I'm not always mad at it.
Stacking 2 or more of these perks, in my opinion, can not only kind of overkill but it indicates to me that the player I'm fighting against is not very confident in their chases, their endgame plays, their teammates, which... it's totally fine to play safe, I just think it's a bit boring for both sides. I think both teams are way more happy if they feel like they earned what they did in their matches, like a David gets a really good DH and baits a hit that practically doubles the length of the chase, I can acknowledge that it was a really nice play and I think both of us can walk away from that feeling like they were either accomplished or aware of what they could have done better. Again I don't want to sound like a jerk in saying it's boring, I don't want to make people believe that running multiple second chance perks makes them a toxic player, I just genuinely believe that generally, you'll only get better at doing risky, but exiting plays by... well... doing risky, but exciting plays. Do what makes you happy, bro. I'm not the fun police.
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@Toybasher said:
Furtive Chase used to be decent on pre-rework Freddy, since he had aura reading on anyone outside his terror radius, so by shrinking your TR in a chase you got better tracking on the survivor throughout loops or if they manage to shake you off so you could rapidly re-engage.
It basically was what Iron Maiden is to Huntress, I'm All Ears to Pyramid Head, and Stridor is to Spirit, perks that synergize very well with the killer's power.
Ah, did not realize that was a thing. Sounds like it would have been interesting for him, I did not play while he was in pre-rework though. As far as I know Furtive is used now to switch obsessions frequently. However, that does seem like an interesting angle to take, in making it synergize really well with another killer's power. Perhaps that would be a sturdy alternative to hiding your red stain at 4 tokens.
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Yeah, I'm definitely feeling that Huntress's Iridescent Head gets nerfed. Not fun in any real capacity to play against, you get Hillbilly's saw but at a far greater effective range. Never really like playing against Huntresses when I find out they have that addon, it's just so easy to slip up just ever so slightly and have everyone die. Being too punishing for small mistakes without a fair penalty on the killer's side is kind of why I think they changed Billy, both through the addon rework and the new overheat. It was one of the few things people overall complained about with him, as seen by insta-saws and the fact that he basically had a solid traversal, downing, and mindgaming tool rolled up into one easy-to-use power while other killers had to work with lesser bonuses.
As for changing Huntress up with a new mechanic or a full-on addon re-evaluation... I'm not sure? Not familiar enough with the patterns BHVR has shown in the past, but if Billy is anything to go off of it's certainly not impossible. I just hope the fact that Iridescent Head is not fun at all to fight is not an indication to the developers that she needs a scrutinizing second look, I like what she's got going now if we ignore the edge case here.
As for Wraith... I surely hope not. And, considering the pattern being shown so far and what has been told to me, there's even less reason for Wraith to change then for Billy to change. Wraith isn't a killer that is extremely able to get 4Ks or is incredibly oppressive in one facet. In Hillbilly's case, both of those were true: with the right perk builds, Billy could get 4 kills without too much trouble, players just had to be in the right place at the right time for everything to line up... and, of course, the saw wasn't just oppressive in one facet. It was able to do a lot of things really well. Great zoning tool, powerful traversal ability, and a great way to end chases quick for snowballing. Wraith isn't nearly as enabled by his power to do crazy stuff. It's a decent traversal ability, and by all means you can mind-game and zone with it as well, but there isn't any threat of anything more dangerous than a health state with that uncloak dash. If Wraith got a Billy-esque reworking, I would be very surprised. But, I guess it wouldn't be the first time I've been surprised, eh?
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This is such a dang hard decision... First off I just want to say all 3 of the 2016 release killers are like, in my top 3. I just have a massive soft spot for them.
Wraith was my favorite to play when I first started playing at release with 2 other friends in customs because I thought being invisible was OP as heck. For a hot second after replaying the game far more recently, I considered playing him as my main, but I didn't commit after I learned about the noob-friendly trapper and I kind of wish I did commit... come to think of it, I might try out Wraith again now that this thread's got me thinking about it.
Trapper was my main man when I was learning the game, he helped me with fundamentals and being able to lock down windows and pallets was a great way for me to not only avoid doing chases against good players (lol) but it also taught me the importance of each killer's power and how it can be used to spice up your play significantly.
Hillbilly was a tough switch for me after practically teaching myself to not commit to chases if my foes started using pallets or windows, but I'm glad I took the time to learn him. He's gonna be changing soon, and although I've seen people calling for the end of times, I genuinely think I'm still going to enjoy him because of how I kept myself going when learning him: Getting saws just feels so great. Whether it landed because of an amazing mind-game play or just because both me and the chased survivor were bumbling idiots, the visceral feeling of landing an instant down is something special and I don't think it's gonna get old for me.
I have to go with Hillbilly for now, just because of the saws, but all 3 of the original killers are probably my main choices. Oh, and Doctor. I played him for a little while and the Iridescent King is just so fun to play around with in customs... haha.
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Okay, legit, I don't even think this perk needs a nerf. I don't even say that because I'm a killer main, literally I don't even like using it. I feel what it needs is adjustment to help it feel more fair.
I absolutely agree that it's annoying as heck to be on the receiving end of, especially against killers that have the ability to cause damage from basically anywhere if they set up well(looking at you, Mr. Macmillan). At the same time, despite it being enabling for killers in endgame, I really don't find it very fun to use. There's not much nuance involved with using it, it's just an endgame super-buff. Because it's the end of the game, as well, you really don't have much time to play around with its effects, either. When the gates are powered, you have to down. It's not like you can just wait for a good situation to use your insta-down and risk the entire team escaping instantly. What I really want from NOED is more nuance, because right now it's a bit... boring? For both sides, too. For survivors, the best counter-play is cleansing every totem on what are basically hunches. For killers, it's only in the relatively inflexible endgame do you get your awesome abilities, meaning it's a pretty sloppy rush to get as many downs as possible. I feel there needs to be more strategy, more counter-play, and more nuance.
I made a separate thread in Feedback and Suggestions about all the hex perks, and I suggested for NOED that it's totem and or effects become active when 1 gen is left, rather than endgame. I really don't know if that would help it feel more fair or give it more strategy, but I see a lot of potential for interesting emergent gameplay in making it active earlier than it is currently, because right now it's not flexible for the killer and borderline unfun to play against as survivor. And, yeah, naturally, you could infer that I'm the kind of killer that wants flexibility. I don't think everyone wants killers to have too much of that, so I feel this is a good compromise. Try as you might, though, I have a good feeling that it's gonna be hard to please everyone with a perk so game-defining.
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Hex perks slowing down the game will always be iffy, you come to expect that inconsistency with hex perks in general. It's practically their balancing factor that their effectiveness is based on how quickly they are found and able to be dealt with. Now, of course, that balancing factor could be too much for certain hexes currently, but that's essentially the defining feature that ties all hex perks together. People like saying that Ruin is bad because its totem can be found at basically any time in the match, but that isn't really the whole story: The reason I see Ruin as underwhelming currently is just that even if you find it early, it's not completely urgent to cleanse it. You can finish generators as normal until the killer starts forcing altruistic plays and you come back to a completely regressed shack gen with a basement in it and all that precious rushing progress to get that thing out of the field was all wasted. You cleanse Ruin when it is convenient or when you are in a situation where not cleansing it would waste time.
As for the poll's choice between these 3 perks, if we're going for the meta favorite, it's gonna be Pop. Just because 25% repair progress is a really substantial amount of time, and if you're playing a killer that has the mobility to take advantage you can basically kick any gen you want in the minute of time it gives you. Overcharge, on the other hand, is an interesting blend of a detection and stalling perk. On it's own, I actually like it more than Pop or Ruin. Only problem of course is I find it to be underwhelming as both a detection and stalling perk, enough so that using it isn't the best choice (as much as I do like to run it with certain builds) Perhaps I'll be making an overview of every killer perk soon, so I'll go over Overcharge (heh) when I get the time to write something for that theoretical thread.
That being said, I really do enjoy Overcharge, but if we're talking the best of these 3 for stalling, its gonna be Pop as of now.
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Short Answer: Dark Devotion.
Long Answer: I don't own this perk as a teachable or even own the killer that has this perk, but in customs it's become a running joke between my group that if there's an obsession its almost 100% because I'm using Dark Devotion. It's just such an interesting obsession perk to use and it opens up this new layer of strategy while making both the killer and survivors pay significant attention to the obsession's status, which I think is great for making the obsession actually mean something in a game. Transferring your terror radius to your obsession while giving you undetectable for the duration it is applied is great for jump-scares, panicking certain survivors, and generally causing chaos through messing with what were once fundamental rules and tossing that out the window for a short time using the power of hitting your obsession... I love you, Dark Devotion. I will forever be devoted.
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@Ancheri said:
Great assessment of all Hex perks. I'm surprised by the objectivity you put into this considering you started playing the game after old Ruin got nerfed.
Got nothing to add on Devour Hope. I too like this perk: it starts unnoticeable, grows bigger in his power, then is revealed and finally brings DOOM FOR EVERYONE.
I agree that Haunted Grounds is a little weird considering it kind of contradicts with the original meaning of Hex perks. However, personally I wouldn't put it on the same level with other Hex perks as it just enhances them.
Lullaby is not all that different from Devour Hope. Still it is way less efficient and can't quite keep up with the high risk, high reward scheme of Hex perks, since the reward is quite humble. I really do love to mess around with the skill checks in my builds, so the general idea is quite lovely and I hope they'll buff it at some point.
NOED could fill entire forums while still not being discussed enough. In my personal opinion it has earned its spot as one of those wild cards, which seem not optimized at all and still they are just perfect the way they are. Those things make me realize again and again that Dbd is not just entirely competitive, but rather chaotic and even imbalanced at some point. NOED is a very unique perk. I don't run it for the strong belief of unhealthiness it would create in my own matches, but for some reason I wouldn't want to see it changed either. It's weird.
Retribution is like the little brother of Haunted Grounds, that can't do anything by himself but always comes up with clever ideas on where to find those filthy survivors. Unique in its style, enhancing other Hex perks. It has established quite well as a type of support perk for specific builds.
Now Ruin of course is an interesting one and I am really surprised that even people like you, who didn't quite get to "enjoy" the existence of old Ruin, find it to be rather underwhelming. Personally I don't think it's that bad anymore, since early game pressure has become less important due to the rework of lots of maps and removal of infinite spots (matches often level off mid-game). What buggles me about Ruin is that you don't need to care for it to do something. That's how it works for Devour Hope and Lullaby. Therefore I really love your idea of adding a repair speed reduction for every remaining totem. This would encourage the killer to guard all the totems and survivors certainly want to destroy them. It adds much more value to the "secondary objective". Not entirely sure about the numbers, but thumbs up for the idea!
I personally don't really like Third Seal, because I think it encourages unfun playstyles or awful scenarios where survivors forget where you're hooked at (yes, it happens). Also, it's designed to punish solo queue, cause the effects don't mean much to swf groups. I do like the idea of stacking penalties. That goes well in line with the Devour Hope/Lullaby scheme. One could probably make it so every basic hit applies a different status effect or hides the red stain for a short amount of time. The list could repeat once worked through. Might result in some diversified situations.
Now for the last one: I've spent lots of hours in MMOs lately so I have to make this comparison. If Haunted Grounds is the devastating damage dealer and Retribution equals a support character, Thrill of the Hunt most definetely completes that trio as a tank or totem guard. Its purpose is simple and can turn Hex perks into a main objective. I just find that it is rather situational, sometimes near broken, sometimes barely useful.
Wooows... This took me longer than expected, but still it was great fun. Just made me realize how versatile this game can be. Thumbs up again for this great summary! Next up would be obsession perks, I guess... ;)
Wow, thanks for the response! I thought it would be nice to look over the hexes as they're easily identifiable as their own "class" of perks. I would not be opposed to looking over the obsession perks... oddly enough I hadn't even thought about doing that until like, as I'm writing this. We'll see how it works out.
Good take on NOED, I feel. Really its a sort of corrupted twist of Adrenaline for killers, which I didn't mention in my original post, but I still think it's a fun dynamic. I tried to keep it as NOED-ey as possible (if such an utterance even makes sense) in my potential changes section, as I cannot help being a mediator in a game that is very much not catered to that kind of negotiating.
Absolutely agree that my numbers might not be amazing for Ruin, I could probably have kept it as broad as add-on descriptions to avoid that but I feel it gets the idea across just fine, even if the math adds up to a whopping 50% reduction to repair speed.
Again, thanks for commenting, and I'm glad you liked it!
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I'm inclined to lean towards killers that aren't from any IP, mostly because I think there's already great representation in familiar movies and other media. If there had to be another licensed one, I'd prefer it be from a book, or John Carpenter's The Thing because a killer that can hide among survivors would be freaking terrifying and really fun at the same time in my opinion. As for "original" creations, the IP I asked for in the survey was less an IP and more a concept, an Illithid from DnD. I don't know what could be done with it (second madness-afflicting killer...?) but I just really like the idea.
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@[Deleted User] said:
For Hex: The Third Seal, I'd suggest making it Blind the Survivor on the first hit, Oblivious on the second hit.
On the Third hit they become Exposed.Interesting viewpoint on that. Having stacking penalties for each hit and separating out the penalties a decent amount so that the first chase isn't partially a complete guessing game I think would help round it out. That's a good idea, my friend!