keys/moris, Left behind, Addons And rng. A discussion on counterparts in asymetric gameplay.
Most people who play both killer and survivor can agree to these things no matter their stance on them, iregardless of how their used or earned in a match. the different roles have their counterparts, antithesis to each other if you will, that makes both sides have varying forms of counterplay to the other side using similar tools taking different forms. this discussion is detailing some of the least comparable portions from both sides, and i'll start by listing some good examples of them before delving into some of the differences and how they could possibly be changed to better the game as a whole. I don't know whether to put this into feedback and suggestions as i have put down a few thoughts of mine on how to alter some mechanics to be better, or if this belongs in general discussion as its more a discussion of asymetry and balance between the two roles and how it can be bettered overall. I wish to attempt to show that outside of player ability and certain powerful abilites within both roles that the game is actually really well balanced.
Insta heals are the survivor counterpart to a killers instadowns (both styles help with ending and extending chases) these are good examples of intended counterparts, no matter the fairness/balance of how one side can use it, they are still perfect antithesis to each other. +1/+2 health state to a -2 health state. they work to do the same job effectively. both can be granted mid match with perks (think pharmacy with ace's/autodidact vs make your choice and hex haunted grounds) or brought in with addons or very specifc killers centered with that as their ability (instaheals/stalk brothers and chainsaw bros.) the fairness of the ability to use and gain them is debated consistently but they are the perfect antithesis to each other, and i don't think anyone can disagree on that fact.
Exhaustion perks are the survivor counterpart to a killers looping perks such as enduring, brutal, bamboozle, spiritfury etc (both styles help with loops) and while not the exact same on both side's, both are comparable to one another because they both help within chases, extending and ending them. both have downsides or are limited in use and are balanced around this. Very good example of asymertrical counters in video games.
Survivors can loot chests for items (and addons with perks) whilst killers cannot. survivors can also potentially keep their item, if they get a victory in the form of staying alive, whilst killers have no form of this. initially i see this decision as if a killer got a merciless victory/killed everyone with a certain set of addon's they could potentially do it endlessly over the next few rounds which would be unfair. but can't the same be said for a survivor having something "op" which would let them boost their abilites and win keeping it endlessly? I would like to point out that a survivor who is allowed to keep their purple toolbox with speed addons is balanced as they can still die or even lose their item to franklins demise, and would like killers to have the same balance. A survivor loses their Bnp when its used why shouldn't a killer lose their insta hatchets? also not all ultra rares are single use, same with rare's even. balance as its needed. its also a blood point sink for killers in an already grindy game in order to constantly renew even basic addons let alone rare ones for specialized builds.
i believe the solution has already been found to ultra rare addons as well as it is already used for survivors : single use addons, or addons that have a downside (Which killers already have). insta heals are single use, the blood amber halves a keys time having a downside, and brand new parts are single use. - therefore the solution to powerful addons on killers and possibly keeping regular ones on them endlessly without blackwards is to make certain purple and pink/red offerings only useful for a singular trial, "effectively having them removed" at the very end of a trial. A very good example of how this could be balanced is the iridecent head addon for huntress. it can let you win games very easily, but if it were removed iregardless of the players win at the end of the game, or their black ward used it would become a far more scarecly used and therefore more balanced addon. having a killer incentivized to kill all the players in a match would also make them less likely to camp, and more likely to become better at finding and ending multiple survivors as fast as possible. Things like prayer beads or pinky fingers could be balanced around a single trial's usage, with other addons being able to be kept in event of a win.
Keys end a survivors game early, and mori's do to. one is a success, one is a loss. Both are analogues of each other right? they are their counterpart no matter the usage and conditions, or how those have changed over the years. they remain the antithesis to one another ending a game early for a player. however one of them can be gotten simply through rng, The key. this i believe needs some slight adjustment expecially due to the new Left behind rework, which is now an incredibly solid perk :)
Well whilst in the past finding a key in a chest as a random chance might have been fair, now we have no one left behinds rework to factor in = essentially giving away the location of the hatch so that even if it is closed if the survivor has a key they randomly got they can get out free as there is no way for the killer to tell a survivor has left behind as a perk and will likely focus completely on protecting exit gates, along with keys are VERY hard to see in a survivors hand, even on the lobby screen.
Now i can understand why keys are able to be gained from chests at random, expecially originally. they were meant to be the final luck fueled chance of victory a survivor has. but with endgame collapse now added we have multiple routes of escape expecially for key users. A killer can't earn a mori midgame outside of perks offerings and certain addons, so why should a survivor be able to have their own analogue to this (keys) be earnable mid match (excluding items and offerings?) I feel both incredibly happy as survivor and guilty when finding one without plunderers instinct, and almost cheated when i see a survivor brings nothing in and gets to walk out without even seeing me once. Its rare but still a minor issue, with a simple fix.
My "key" suggestions (pardon the pun) would to make keys no longer able to be looted from chests unless running the Plunderers instinct perk. No rarity or item chance changes. simply the removal of the chance to be granted such an incredibly powerful item from a chest based PURELY on rng. I also would like to suggest a new set of offerings that affect chests giving the player a key - analogues to the memento mori if you will (for as long as that goes untouched in the game that is) = an example of which could be a ebony secret offering which garuntees a chest in the endgame, to have a key of dull or higher rarity (thus requiring there to be an unlooted chest in the endgame.) Keys should also be given a bright silver texture, allowing them to be seen easier. This should only be the case while mori offerings are in the game, as if a killer can be able to bring in a offering to end the game early, the equivalent survival based offering should be something survivors can use.
I also suggest adding the ability for a killer to break a chest! thats right you hear me right, a killer should be able to break a chest, granting them a random addon, if they already have full addons, that addon could be left on the broken chest as a new "skull/totem" which at the end of the game could grant the killer a random addon (this could also be destroyable as survivor, or could instead act as a new totem spot? or simply breaking a chest with full addons could just deny a survivor an item). i also suggest the cap on chests is raised per map by atleast one, and the cut coin/offerings for chests as killer, allow better chances at higher rarity addon's from their chest destruction, rather then reducing the amount of chests in the match. the downside could be that higher tier items will appear for survivors. breaking a chest should be a short channelable action akin to breaking a gen, with the same perks (ie brutal strength) applying to it. This would be a net positive to the game as well! allowing newer players to gain addon's mid match on unleveled, or low level charecters (also would pair well with trapper usually being the first played killer as he comes with brutal strength and is the one in the tutorial/is active when first selecting killer). it would also act as a minor secondary objective one could do whilst survivors are all hooked, whilst finding survivors or simply endgame whilst everyones struggling on hook.
Though speaking of Rng, thats something i feel unbalances the overall asymetry of the game, most of the time in such a way that its incredibly unfair to one side. Expecially map Rng. Sometimes maps can be incredibly survivor sided, sometimes sided way to favourably towards the killer and whilst to a degree thats ok we've seen that be a major problem in outlying instances. Too many/too little pallet spawns, windows being open or closed, exit gate distances and certain versions of tiles spawning all can dramatically alter the balance of the game in one sides favour. my only suggestion is to put limits on some effective loops, such as the wretched shop window, and to increase the occurance of favourable loops elsewhere. many suggestions for maps have been made so i won't talk about them here.
XP and bloodpoint generation are not truly comparable. i constantly see new players being recommended by experienced ones to "go play killer" and "buy bbq/leatherface". this is mostly due to the fact that an entire category of bloodpoints is limited on the survivor side = survival. Whilst most killers have the ability to fill all categorys evenly throughout a match, survival can't be filled due a limited amount of actions. my proposed solution would be to add more actions, or to allow passive generation of it up until 10 minutes of match time have passed (unless on hook or downed) as you are effectively surviving. the points should also not generate in endgame collapse, to prevent players just "sticking around". Player xp is also limited as it also effectively cuts off after 10 minutes of match time, and the category xp for doing incredibly well is very small. Buff this by taking the timer up until 20 minutes, the average time of a long match, and make the max emblem quality 300 for iridecent, 200 for gold, 100 for silver, and -50 for a lack of emblems (decreasing only xp generation not any that is earned already.) This would act to encourage players to play well to rank up and get more shards.
Swf are of huge debate and i feel where honestly getting close to the point of being perfectly balanced. there will almost always be a direct advantage to using comms over playing alone, but with a few tweaks such as player icons showing when where chased, survivors being shown within 32m of a hook. to buckle ups aura being basekit, i feel we could get a near perfect balance between solos and active swf. coordinated swf isin't even half the problem it used to be as well, with most killers if their keen enough being able to counter many of the tactics a good team can employ. Hell even solos can employ most of the same tactics now, if their good enough.
However despite all of these things listed. if you took away all the items, addons, offerings etc. a killer is perfectly balanced against four survivors and vice versa. the game for the most part is a game of skill, and when it comes down to it can evenly be won by either side. what it comes down to is what counters and abilites you bring into the match, what you are prepared to face that counts. i also believe thats why people are so afraid of swf (no matter the benefits they actually recieve from being on coms) because they aren't prepared and don't feel they can fight something stronger then them, even if the information is of little benefit, or benefits hugely. The game for the most part is balanced, Rng, preparation, the rare ultra powerful setups (that are constantly being adjusted by vigilant devs) and player skill are all what make the true differences in a match, whilst also making this game fun. i simply feel that an adjustment in rng, to make it fairer on both sides (along with the minor addon adjustment here, perk adjustment there and killer adjutment there) will bring this game even closer to perfectly balanced then its ever been. Player skill and ability will and should always trump out everything and it slowly has been over the years of development, and i believe with enough changes here and there that it will be the only limiting factor in being able to play this game at high tier play :) Obviously a lot of factors could use adjustment before the games perfect, like allowing lower tier killers the ability to pressure gens easier, or for solos to have the same kind of knowledge as swf, but were getting there slowly.
Comments
tldr atleast for that part is that keys are the antithesis to memento mori's, however unlike them can be earned in match and are very hard to see. Suggestion was to brighten the key texture and disallow keys to be looted from a chest unless running plunderers or an offering. didn't go into the balance of mori's excluding stating that perks allowing them are balanced.
For the trained eye yes! i can see keys for the most part but even i have trouble seeing them in and out of lobby :/ Really have to strain my eyes. even if they just added that, i would be so happy.
I don't feel it would be good to bring back those offerings as they were, lots of problems were made due to them. fact that their "retired" rather than taken away makes me feel the devs want to do something more with them though.