So why Devs you chose to nerff killer perks but not buff survivors perks ?
I really want to know why you do that instead of making the survivors to give one perks slot you chose to destroy one of the killer perk. I mean you can buff wake up and leave remember me the way it was but you don't. Can you please answer that.
Comments
Because a perk should be something to aid you in game and not be necessary.
Remember the egc only kicks in once the gates are open after the gens are done and it's only 5 seconds less so it won't change much in that scenario.
It's not like it was used a lot before this change and nobody was complaining on the forum about it.
Why the sudden change of heart from eveyone? Is it because its a nerf or simply because you realised how strong it would be in the hatch scenario?
@twistedmonkey
Thats exactly the point why people are disappointed at the approach for Remember Me. It was a perk rarely used (except for endgame builds) and weak outside such builds. And they straight up nerfed it to avoid a very specific case (which even then it can be questionable...), instead of actually thinking a way to make it work.
Probably the best suggestion I have seen so far is one (I dont remember who, sorry, you random person) in which the Obsession changes when the hatch is closed, or the last Survivor alive isnt affected by the perk. There, you keep the fun and only power of the perk without nerfing it into oblivion, while also preventing that very specific case.
@twistedmonkey remember me got a 14 second nerf. It used to add 30 seconds but now it only adds 16. That is a significant nerf.
No one was complaining about the perk before now because it was in a good spot. Now that it's nerfed it is by definition underpowered (which is what always happens if a balanced mechanic is significantly nerfed)
It still at and hardly.anyone one used it even with the original time as it was situational.
To leave a perk which would be ultimately its strongest in something they have been working a long time on trying to balance doesn't seem logical, if you honestly think that's a good idea to let one perk be so strong in the hatch scenario I dont know what to say.
Do you think the doors taking almost 50% of the egc timer is a good balance mechanic? Do you think anyone would escape under those circumstances?
Yes they could have made the perk stay the same and only work when the hatch scenario hapoened but woukd it change its use?
It was probably nerfed this way due to its low usage in the first place which again is logical, who knows they may change it in the future but for now it's an easy change to something very rarely used to balance the new mechanic which everyone has been constantly asking for.
I will take the egc over this perk any day.
Just going to say that perks that = to "hold m1 longer" are not exactly interesting or great for the game. Not sure where I stand on the Remember Me nerf, but it wasn't exactly a thrilling or exciting perk.
If you honestly think taking a rare perk and removing 50% of its effect in all cases, JUST IN CASE a very rare situation that requires incredible play to reach happens, rather than making the perk scale differently is "balance," I'm worried for you.
@twistedmonkey And again why not buff wake up and say in tier 3 you open the doors 40-50 % faster that will make the perk top tier and many survivors will put in the build. Besides the EGC only active it after one door is open so that makes even less sense. And lastly " Because a perk should be something to aid you in the game and not be necessary." with your logic then Ruin should be out of the game and even fether more all the second chance perks and the all the exhaustion should be out of the game as well.
I'm worried you think the opposite, if you really do think that a perk should be allowed to guarantee something which goes against what the new hatch idea then you are showing it's something you are upset aboutand probably as you would start to use it.
Its one perk which woild only be atrongest in that scenario, it can be reworked if needed an may well be with the Freddy change but for balance sake its logical to change it for now.
No perk is ever needed they all aid you, if wake up started to become a necessity if more people started using remember me in the hatch scenario then that's bad design.
I haven't run exhaustion perks since 2017 and never had a problem, those perks are not needed them, I prefer to lose the killer, exhaustion perks aid a survivor with some distance they never guarantee they don't do down.
Ruin is also not a guaranteed win it just helps you slow the game down in the start as it can last 20 seconds or 5 minutes depending on the survivors, the former being the one most players claim, it's never needed though even though some think otherwise but you cant change how those people think, I dont run ruin as it's a wasted slot most of the time, I prefer perks which aid me in the chase.
I really don't no and none of the devs answerd my question in this regard, why would the prefer to nerf Remember Me over buffing Wake Up!
@twistedmonkey Even tho Ruin and exhaustion perks are not 100% necessary they give you better chances to win. Right now the biggest problem killer have is time and they need perks that can slow the game, but guess what devs just nerf those perks every time the can ( except ruin).
They're afraid of making people strong.
I don't believe the ######### you're suggesting, and if you go into my past comments you can see that I suggested a rework.
The key point of which is to make it fairer for that scenario that probably amounts to less than 10% of games that Remember Me is in, WITHOUT making it a worthless perk and removing half of its effect in every other situation.
Essentially deleting a killer perk because there's a single scenario which requires a LOT of different factors to come into play where it might not feel fair is not balancing, it's avoiding the effort of balancing the perk by just nerfing it into the ground so you don't have to think about it.
It's like how the DS rework went through iterations like stunning the killer without a drop. That would have killed the perk entirely, rather than the current iteration which makes it a decent perk to combat unfair situations.
16 seconds on a gate in a vast majority of games is so worthless that the perk will be seen even less than the what, <1% of games it's in now at 30 seconds?
That's the thing with remember me though, in that situation the chances of someone escaping drop drastically, 50s out of 120s would be a guaranteed win as there would be not time to change gates, it would be sit on one and hope to bot get downed.
Giving better chances and guaranteeing something are two different things, if we want balance we have to accept things that can be overly powerful need changed, the egc and hatch scenario does this with remember me.
Crappy perk made really strong in that scenario, think about the amount of hatch posts and complaints about it, that says it happens a lot and the players tend to play for what will happen hence the ruin use so it's not a stretch to think many would starting use this perk.
We can't ask for balance with DS, MoM etc and think leaving this would be ok as it makes arguments about balance null and void.
And again why they don't buff wake up ? And you forgot in two minite you can run the map no prplem and get to the other open door .
The key point is it may be 10% now but is it so hard to look at what could happen? What if that 10% turned into 50%? You cannot take the current percentage and use it for a change such as this, to think you can shows a huge lack of understanding regarding balance.
Actually that 8s how balance works, if something is hardly used due to it really not having an impact can then suddenly be used to negate an entire scenario being implemented then for balance it needs changed.
Balancing isn't about just change this, it's about looking at every scenario and seeing what can happen.
DS is still strong, if not stronger at end game which many of us knew would happen and why in the past and i suggested it shouldn't work after the gates are opened as nothing should be a free escape it should be earned.
It's not 30 seconds as the gate takes 20 seconds as it was changed back from 15 to 20, it takes 36 seconds now.
Do you honestly think making a change for better balance for the hatch which has been debated since 2016 and then leaving a perk which would would guarantee it's in favour of one side a good idea?
Why the big uproar of a perk you say was in <1%? I will tell you, you know how strong it would be and are upset it won't guarantee you that kill now, that's the bottom line.
If someone cant see a logicsl change for balance reasons then It's not about balance it's about wanting something to be overly strong so it can be used, that's a terrible mindset to have.
OK so you clearly don't even know what the hell the perk is or why it was nerfed.
The ONLY situation where RM became "unfair" was when the killer had 6 stacks of Remember Me, (That means no tunnelling in a NUMBER of different ways, no one hit downs, no chainsaws on at least one person) AND not all the gens were completed, AND 3 survivors have died. After that the killer also found and closed the hatch starting the EGC which leaves the only option opening the gate through Remember Me. The killer has performed EXCEPTIONALLY to that point, (also using only 3 perks because Remember Me doesn't affect the rest of the match) and they're worried that it "doesn't feel like a fair enough shot that the last survivor still gets to escape."
In EVERY other match, Remember Me only comes into play when, A. there are multiple survivors alive, and B. they aren't on a timer because EGC starts AFTER they open a gate through Remember Me.
Remember Me is currently seen in <1% of games roughly. Hell I haven't even seen it this year. That's how underwhelming it is when it adds 30 seconds. Now rather than leave it at that ALREADY PRETTY ######### LEVEL and make a change to it for that one INCREDIBLY RARE SITUATION. Scale it? Add the condition "Remember Me is disabled if the hatch is shut?" They instead decide to remove 50% of its effect so that that single, infinitessimally small percentage of games won't feel strong.
The PTB version of Remember Me won't be in <1% of games, it will be in Adept Freddy attempts and NOTHING else because it no longer functions as a perk.
Also your response is absolute nonsense, there's not other word for it. "What if 50% of games MAGICALLY become a 1v1 with a closed hatch now, due to no changes to 90% of killers, gen speed, survivors or the game in general?" Are you serious? What, you think changing the end game is going to spontaneously ripple the universe and suddenly the entire game will have changed despite nothing that affects pacing BEFORE the end game changing?
@twistedmonkey And for that case you buff survivors perks in order to counter the killer perk, you don nerf killer perk in case it may be OP. If you make wake up stronger and keep remember me the same you can have a heath end game why? because you give counter play to both sides do the gens go fast and you can hit one person 6 times and don't hit be DS well-done take 30 sec more in order to open the gate. What you fear you may get remember me in this game just take wake up to be sure. The logic i will nerf killer perks because can be OP if this x scenario happens to make no sense. Even if the ENC triggered with the last gen be done it will still make no sense to nerf killer perks just in case survivor can play the game better than the killer.
You completely miss the point, the hatch scenario with this change is meant to be a fair chance for both sides, just because a set of things lined up dies not mean it should be allowed to break that balance.
Remember me should be string when multiple survivors are left but not with one as it shifts the balance to one side way too much, if you can't see a problem with that then that's on you.
If the game is as you say hardly getting to the hatch then it wouldn't have been one if the most complained about mechanics.
If you haven't seen the perk this year really what is the big deal? If it's never used why is the nerf to it such a huge dissaster? Like I said probably because you see the potential much like the devs did and for balance reasons thought it would be way too harsh with what they have been trying to solve.
It's a lesser evil than changing other strong perks which are more used.
A perk should not have to be needed to nullify another in a scenario.
Perks again are there to aid something not be be necessary.
I do think wake up should also be changed to reflect the nerf to remember me also it's not as powerful agaisnt it.
A perk which has this potential isn't great design as I stated, if it became meta no one would be able to get out after the hatch was closed.
Balance isn't a one way street, to solve the past hatch problems they came up with a whole new mechanic of the egc, it's the best thing the game has added in the last year imo and fixes one of the major issues the game has always had.
To have this one perk nerfed to make it more balanced is a compromise I can accept as I want both sides to have the chance not have something left in which skews it.
With NOED, whispers already used a lot it's a lesser evil than changing perks like those and makes more sense as those are stronger at end game.
Here the thing tho killer have to put same perks in order to counter survivor perk or mechanics like the old DS, BT and many of the top tier survivor perk. So again this logic does not work here. At the same time, almost all the killer perks can be counted from the survivors without using any perk.
No killer perk nulifies those perks or mechanics they simply aid and are never guaranteed.
DS, I dont think it should have ever have been in the game and have stated my opinion numerous times, I dislike that perk and evenwith the change it just shifted it making it stronger at end game and can mean a free escape, it needs changed so it doesnt work when the gates are powered imo.
BT was introduced as a neccessity for camping as nothing could stop that from happening and the devs do not want someone caught within 30 seconds and taken out the game, its a mindset players have but again I have stated my opinion that BT shouldnt work after the gates are opened as its too strong and its the most logical time for a killer to camp to secure that last kill, to me thats acceptable.
Pair both of those perks together along with MoM and you have multiple chances to get out, that is also bad design.
The thing is just because X has this doesnt mean that you should want Y to have something akin to it as that is a hypocritical way of thinking and says you are ok with overly strong things as long as it suits your personal need.
But all those perks are in the game and work the way they are in order to waste the time from the killer, and that why killer use perks to minimize the effect they have but Devs nerf them to the point are useless to use at the same time the keep other survivors perks they way they are and ether is still useless (wake up) or can counter better perks and killer powers.
Can you use it ?
Devs should start doing some buffs or rework useless perks on both sides except remember me