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Game Health Patch

Kind_Lemon Kind_Lemon
in General Discussions

I made this post to point out that game health is not synonymous with game balance, and when the devs said they were able to split the team into people working on balance and people working on new content, they still completely missed the point of a "health" patch.

What health includes:

  1. Minimization of frustrations
  2. Minimization of issues toward irl health for players (if they exist)
  3. Addressing the nature of the allure(s) of the game and reinvigorating them (outside of keeping players around for the novelty of new patches).
  4. Perhaps a bloodweb overhaul to how perks are leveled (see footnote 1)
  5. Changing the relationships of the members of the community with one another to be more positive.
  6. Addressing core gameplay mechanics that have so far gone untouched outside of perk additions. The last change we had to how generators function in the match was with The Doctor.
    1. Time efficiency is a big issue
      1. requiring pallet set up time would create additional, optional objectives for survivors to do other than gens. i.e. if the survivors focus on gens, they could probably get out faster but be left with less resources in chases, but if survivors focus on setting up first, the killer also has more time to set up and start gaining pressure (see footnote 2)
      2. survivor deaths are some of the biggest factors to time efficiency. Changes to how survivors die and what happens after that belong in this list as well as the balance list.
    2. sabotage (see footnote 3)


What balance includes

  1. Some (but not all) of the above.
  2. Is x perk too weak?
  3. is y killer too strong?
  4. What should be happening with x mechanic
  5. Most consistency changes (i.e. map graphics across all maps, balanced landing tier changes (which I think were stupid), the equalization of Bubba's and Billy's chainsaw charge interactions, etc.)
  6. nothing to do with the community and only somewhat related with how the community feels about the game.


When people are asking for a health update, we are asking for more changes to perks like NOED or offerings like such as the mori or items such as the key BUT we are also asking for changes like the ones in the health category not included in the balance category. Removing the Hillbilly's godawful roar isn't a balance change per se (it does affect gameplay slightly, however), but it most certainly would be a change in the name of health because I hate it myself and I've seen a number of other people on this forum express their distaste with the addition.

What's worse than dodging the question about a health patch in a Q&A is pretending to answer it but butchering its intent by saying, "You mean balance. We've been doing balance (so we don't even know why you're asking the question), so no. We're good."

That response was incredibly disheartening and disappointing, because just like the Civ VI comment, the Clown comment, the comments on kill rates, and the comments on numerous other subjects, it shows that you fundamentally separate yourselves from large parts of the community (I'm sure you're right in line with some other parts) in terms of hopes and wishes for the future of the game. That knowledge is frustrating, and I'm sure it shows clearly in the few occasions the community has to show it.

Spoiler Spoiler Warning ▲▼

And because it seems like I have to make this clear, I am specifically addressing this post to those who are

A. in charge and making decisions and

B. those who can get this message to those in charge and making decisions

I am well aware that the developers consist of a large conglomerate of individuals with individual perspectives who all perform different tasks in the company, and I am well aware that often superiors possibly make decisions with which other developers disagree but have no say. I am also aware that this community can be exceedingly toxic and harsh towards comments made haphazardly or comments that take a position contrary to the members of this forums, and I know that being that person who is targeted can be hard. But please know that many people who play the game are unhappy with it, and when a crack is seen, it is targeted ruthlessly regardless of the fact that there is another human behind the screen.

Footnotes:

1

@Kind_Lemon said:

(for bloodweb and perk leveling, skip past the spoiler/italics)

Spoiler Spoiler Warning ▲ ▼

First and foremost, I think a White Ward should prevent add-ons from being lost upon an escape if the devs do go through with this change. I personally dislike it given that I have very few clean rags or rubber grips despite having upwards of one hundred of brown bloodpoint offerings each. Keeping these add-ons after a successful escape is the only way they can compete with the amount of bloodpoint offerings without burning through tens of bloodwebs worth 50,000 points each.

About killers keeping add-ons: I think considering adding the rule that killers lose their add-ons only if a survivor escapes would be an intriguing idea even if only for the sake of lore (eg. the Entity rewards killers for doing well). However, before considering this, the issue of bloodpoint gain, the cheapness of bloodwebs, and perk acquisition needs to be addressed.

Perks and Bloodweb leveling

As it stands now, perks can only be obtained through the bloodweb, and the sheer number of perks in the game requires an inordinate amount of bloodpoints to be spent and bloodwebs to be run through in order to acquire most (if not all). The developers decided to make the bloodweb cheaper to combat (among other things such as 8k common bloodpoint offerings) the grind to acquire all the perks. In doing so, the developers allowed players to breeze through bloodwebs and accumulate hundreds of add-ons and offerings that can't be used in enough games before the player reaches the bloodpoint cap and has to start leveling again or waste the points.

The BEST solution (not the easiest) is to add another menu in the bloodweb tab that is designed solely for upgrading perks and then increase the prices of items on the bloodweb. I have incomplete drawings I may edit in later, but for now, imagine it as similar to the UI structure of the loadout tab (add-on choosing, offering choosing, etc.). There is a bloodweb section and then a perk section that can be switched between with ease.

How it functions:

  • The bloodweb no longer spawns perks higher than the first tier and teachable perks, so once a player has purchased a perk in the bloodweb, he/she will have to travel to the perk upgrade menu.
  • In the perk upgrade menu, players will be able to see the perks they have purchased off the bloodweb. All perks (other than the first tier of teachable perks) not purchased from the bloodweb will not appear. If a player clicks on a perk, a prompt will show up asking the player if he or she would like to upgrade the perk a tier (or downgrade, but I'm still not sure about having this option) and will show a price twice that of the next level's rarity (eg. upgrading from common to uncommon will be 8,000 and upgrading from Very Rare to Ultra Rare will be 14,000).
  • Purchasing a perk on the bloodweb does not immediately consume another perk node. Instead, The Entity will first consume the highest rarity node in the furthest ring.

I think this solution is best because it removes the problem part of the grind from the bloodweb, the sole way for killers to get items and add-ons and the only way for anyone to get offerings. It gives the developers more flexibility in the future to play with prices and the numbers of rarities of nodes on any given bloodweb. Even perhaps more crucially, it allows players more agency in deciding which perks to be able to upgrade, avoiding (for the most part) unwanted perks and giving players more of an option to plan out builds and strategies without relying on chance to such a degree.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YQKFIWTIZGMM/perk-leveling-282-29.png

https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LLMYBPPJFFWX/perk-leveling-286-29.png

(ik the amount is inconsistent with what the above post states. Follow the post and treat the pictures as rough drafts.)

(P.S. This also brings back Ultra Rare and Common perks)

2

@Kind_Lemon said:

Don't touch gen regression speed. That's a terrible idea. I like long games as survivor, and I tend to kick gens regularly as killer (just for points, mostly), and what you are saying would basically further kill any kind of stealth around completing generators in DbD.

I played against a Huntress on the game in recent memory who had almost a three gen, and the match took what felt like hours longer just because of how much the gens would regress between when she came to check them and by the time one of the two survivors left came to work on it again. It's painful to know that you're playing all of your cards right and showing that your knowledge of routes and paths is better than the killer's but be trapped in the same match just because gens regress when kicked. It probably wasn't any fun for her, but game mechanics told her that she should keep trying even if that wasn't going to prove her skill. I eventually escaped through the doors (after Meg bled out and Huntress closed the hatch). Don't make experiences like that more painful for everyone involved.

Real solutions to "genrush" come in the form of preventing pallets from being used the instant players load into the match (eg. an untethering animation for every one that would "prime" pallets for use (this also prevents stupid survivors from dropping important pallets early) or causing survivors that sprint to alert the killer of their presence through a loud noise indicator if they're far enough away and the killer hasn't started a chase yet / hasn't had a chase within the past 60 seconds). Changes like that would definitely affect how survivors behaved around gen completion, becoming less inclined to just run to a gen and sit on it without preparing any escape options before the gen interaction.

3

@Kind_Lemon said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1625751#Comment_1625751

okay, so I wrote you a shorter reply earlier because I was tight on time for the moment, but since you brought it up, the Sabotage and Saboteur issue has a solid place in my heart.

First off, I don't like what the devs did to toolboxes. Having a burst of speed only at specific points is totally worse (for me and the way I play my games) than having toolboxes that shaved more time but over a longer period. But that's not my main point; back to sabo!

How sabotage should work

Sabotaging takes 18 seconds.

Hooks do not automatically respawn.

If a survivor wiggles off of a killer's shoulder and there are no useable hooks within 32 meters, then all hooks within 72 meters respawn after a ten second delay.

Each time a hook is sabotaged, it will take 6 seconds longer to sabotage every consecutive time.

Hook caps are changed so that hooks spawned in because of their restrictions are spawned in already sabotaged and will not respawn until a survivor wiggles off (see above criteria).

What this does

Survivors are discouraged from sabotaging all the hooks in one area. Survivors are encouraged to leave one or two hooks standing unless absolutely necessary to prevent a critical hook from occurring. Survivors will be able to sabotage hooks near objectives and in dead zones to force the killer to hook a survivor in less convenient places.

Killers won't be put into situations where they cannot hook anyone and will be forced to think more tactically in many cases about what the survivors are doing in terms of hook placement.

Perks

Saboteur

  • unlocks the ability to sabotage at 70/75/80% speed without using a toolbox
  • toolbox consumption when sabotaging is decreased by 16/22/28%

Hangman's Trick

  • hook sabotage skill check success and skill check bonus zones are reduced by 40/50/50%
  • hooks take an additional 4/4/6 seconds to sabotage each time they respawn.

If this was in a PTB, you would never have problems with sabo, and it would be used outside of just niche builds.


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