BayushkiBayu
BayushkiBayu
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@DerpedByDave said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694669#Comment_3694669
I'm Not talking about the OG insta blinds, there was a period of time (I think around the Stanger things chapter could be wrong) where you had to time the animation almost perfectly to stop a pickup this actually required more skill and you could justify giving the flashlights some utility, now it's much more forgiving to blind In the pickup animation, a new player with 3 hours in the game could watch a YouTube video and immediately use flashlights at the top teir level with very little to no practice, Some say this is good for the game but I don't think it sounds very fun for new killers getting blinded 30 times on their first match.
An no light burn dosint lead to tunneling lol but the "consistency" changes do imo, I'm just saying if were taking out mechanics that add variety to the game it will force everyone to play the same way and right now the way to play is eliminate 1 survivor ASAP. Look at the twins for example somehow we all decided that slugging is bad an needs to be removed from the game even tho survivors & killers have multiple perks dedicated to being in the downed state, it's changes like this that slowly strip different elements out of the game untill it's not us choosing how we play the game, but the devs and higher ups in the community dictating how we play like little puppet masters. The funny part is rn there clearly telling us to tunnel and play toxic on both sides.
This is just my opinion tho maybe you like the way the games heading and that's great, overall yes the game state is better in theory because we have more killers to compensate for lack of variety but every one plays the same 3 killers anyways so what's the point.
I realised I didn't provide a whole lot of examples so look at the hatch mechanic, I fully agree that the old hatch was unfair but there was nothing like the thrill of bringing a key&hatch offering then coordinating your team to shack with one gen left so you can all dip before the killer shuts it. Again I agree it was unfair but I wish instead of nerfing a Iri item and removing this style of gameplay they found a way to balance it and make it fun for everyone. Maybe like the key takes 60s to unlock a gate with 1 gen left but the killer gets notified and the other gate is blocked, idk it's in the past an I'm just spit balling but my point is there's better ways to change the game without strait up removing things, when we do this is limits our choices and leads to a singular playstyle.
Thanks for that response. I understand a lot more of where you're coming from and agree with a lot (or maybe all) of it.
I'm down for more variety but I feel that a lot of players I'm running into are more "competitively" inclined or adjacent in spirit to it. So they want to do whatever it takes to win. I know it's always been that way but I guess with a wider playerbase via crossplay I'm running into people that just are there to do their objective and only that. I personally haven't gotten to play against a Chag, a basement Bubba, a Heartbeat Wraith, and a few other goofy builds I used to see that are still available in the game as far as I know. I'm fine with most of my matches not being goofy. But I so rarely see anything goofy since I've returned and when I play killer, survivors don't seem to recognize when I'm not even trying to 3-4K them with a goofy build either. They play their hearts out even when I'm purposely downing them and picking up and dropping them over and over to let them go because they're death hook. They just run off and do a generator as far away as possible. And that used to happen but it feels more frequent now. I love it when I get a survivor that picks up on the fact I'm just having fun with them and comes over out of nowhere and t-bags them and stuff like that.
So I can understand lightburn being gone kinda feels bad now I've thought about it more and more. But I'm not sure if it's just a symptom of something else more than anything. I'm not convinced the skill based matchmaking is great for the game either. And that all the unintentional techs whether strong or silly being removed is probably not great either. I understand the ones that could hold games hostage (survivors getting you to fall on them from a height that prevented you from moving, out of map or unreachable area glitches, etc) but things like SkyBilly should stay IMO. I don't remember it really being an issue and being more goofy rather than viable. I want stuff like that a bit more often than I see it.
I think the goofiest thing I've seen so far since I've returned was during Blood Moon, I was running from a Leatherface before he caught up enough and still waited for me to throw pallet or keep going. The whole team realized it and we were all dancing and whatnot but he wasn't taking any Blood Moon hooks for his own gain. I thought that was strange. Well, the last generator pops and another survivor and I were with the killer and he suddenly M1s and instant downs her and moris her. Haha, he had Rancor. Funny. Well, I completely forgot about Nemesis being a perk and he does a little dance with me right after the mori and walks under a pallet and I throw it and become the new obsessions in which he M1s me and moris me. I couldn't stop laughing at the fact that I had run into this and that I fell for it. In the post-game he just said "gg. I knew you had it in you <my name>" and I told them how funny I thought it was and they said they've been flamed for it many times before because it's not "proper farming." Which I think is just weird. Maybe it's just the old DBD speaking to me but I'd much rather die to a Rancor + Nemesis Bubba who goofed off with us than deal with the traditional literal facecamp chainsaw rev Bubba that could chew through Borrowed Time if you even had it equipped. Oddly, Weskers are either some of the sweatier or sillier killer players I've encountered. I don't know if it's because he's a decent character to use in addition to being a character fans of a game series love that creates the combination or what.
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I'm not claiming this game to be balanced. It is an asymmetrical game from the ground up. Both teams have vastly different advantages and disadvantages. I also miss old DbD but I'm not sure if it was the best for the long term either. I just never was a fan of the fact that flashlights could not only be used at animation locks to gain some visual interference and to save people on pick up but also to just take a Wraith out of his stealth.
Also, you can call whatever killer you want a tunneling "B!#h" but people don't always play these killers the same. Leatherface was THE facecamp mascot back when he came out since you had to really bait him to avoid both of you going down. But not all Leatherface players would stare at you on hook. Wraith, in my opinion, while a fun killer to play is not an insanely powerful one and his add-ons make up for that somewhat or add mind games to him (everywhere bell, silent bell, terror/stain suppression add-ons). Even then, there are just better killers who can just tunnel better anyway.
I haven't messed with flashlights a whole lot since coming back but I'm not sure how I feel about the "used to take skill" statement. Yeah, there was a point I'd say it was probably harder but there was also points where you could blind a killer at any moment in the pick up animation and they'd drop the survivor when the animation finished. There was also the instant blind era which felt like a low skill floor to me. I've seen this sentiment before so maybe they are easier than they were commonly in the past but I'm not really sure why that it's stated to be this way. People say it but I never see the reasoning why they believe this or say it.
So I'm not sure that these changes have led to a more tunneling meta. I think that's always been something the game has struggled with. Facecamping was kind of part of the first bit of tunneling, just way less efficient as it scared off solo que players from saving more often (due to lacking the guaranteed coordination). Instead they'd go do generators with no pressure while their teammate's hook stage ticked downward. Has lightburn's disappearance really led to an uptick in tunneling? Why did this affect other killers who never had lightburn mechanics? Does Trapper tunnel more because his traps don't get dismantled either permanently or for 3 minutes? I'd imagine changes like that would reduce tunneling if anything. Or that integrating a built-in discouragement for facecamping with the ability to unhook if the killer stays around you too long has led to them tunneling more often. Obviously facecamping even then was a waste of the killer's time but now that it is practically forced onto them not to, they found a more efficient method to heighten their chances of a kill. It feels like a natural progression more than BHVR's fault because you can't lightburn a B tier killer.
I quit playing around the beginning of 2021 and just started again about two months ago. Has tunneling not been a relevant thing for long? Is this a new phenomena? I see the Borrowed Time as a baseline ability change was made almost two years ago. Has tunneling spiked since then? What's the time frame because I legitimately have no clue.
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@DerpedByDave said:
He's honestly seems hard to balanced good players are going to land every shot systematicly taking out survivors giving them no real or fun counterplay (but it seems like the devs don't want any interesting counter play with removing light burn n all)
on the other hand players who are learning or not playing very well are going to get severely penalized for missing shots as the survivor will stair you down remove the effect making you reset all your progress and land another 2 uvx hits.
I'd maybe give unknown a shorter cool down & smaller blast radius, that way he can use his powers more often but survivors can also juke and counter little easier with the smaller radius.
Please do not bring back lightburn. I much enjoy the consistency across the board we have now vs when flashlights aren't only good for blinds and blind saves but also help counter three of the killers. Especially when two of those killers were not worthy of niche additional counterplay. Nurse is strong anyway so lightburning her teleport is fine to me but Wraith didn't deserve all those burns he got over the years and Hag had traps you just had to dodge or crouch over if you spotted them unless you happened to bring or find a flashlight. I feel similarly about being able to dismantle Trapper's traps, don't have a tool box or Saboteur? Can't even do it. You did bring that? Now you're ruining his day.
With killers still seeing items in the lobby screen and being able to leave it, what reason do you have to want to stay there as a Trapper if 3-4 of them have toolboxes? What reason do you have to stay there as a Wraith if they have 3-4 flashlights? I just don't like it and I'd rather just have counterplay be reliable for Survivors regardless of what they do or don't bring to the match item wise. It's a casual game with variance but I feel this is just another layer of variance on that only added feelsbad moments to the game.
As far as the Unknown goes, I think it's fine but I agree that it feels weak against coordinated teams because they will find your decoy/hallucinations and dispel them but survivors who are all just kinda doing their own thing will fall apart from the pressure. Personally not a fan of the teleporting as it currently is but I also don't think it warrants a change necessarily either. Not sure what it is I'm not a fan of but maybe it's that it's a 115% speed killer that can teleport and has ranged attacks. But 115% is normal, the teleports aren't always reliable to know where they go, and the ranged attacks need two hits for a health state. But I think just the combination makes me feel like it gets a lot of tools despite them all being some sort of weaker version of it and I dislike that aspect I guess.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682514#Comment_3682514
Survivor adepts are infinitely easier than killer adepts.
Killer adepts inevitably result in the killer slugging for the 4K, which nobody enjoys.
"No one escapes through an exit" or "The exit gates do not get powered" is functionally the same as a 4K without the 4 minutes of slugging.
Yeah that's a fair reason to want to change it I think. Because slugging is almost always how people almost guarantee it. No one really wants to play killer again with only three perks after barely losing a 4K to a hatch. I wasn't trying to say Adept was easier on one side or the other, just that other achievements have gotten easier over the years while some have gotten harder. And I do think Adept for Killer is overall easier than it used to be. If they got two generators done, you couldn't close hatch or had a hatch stand-off. Now, you find the hatch or slug for the 4k either is about as viable. Also, no one can DC mid-match or open the hatch with 2 people left and leave (assuming 2 generators left that is). That's what I was trying to say.
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I keep seeing how good this is but I've only been got by it once so far and it felt like a fair gotchya on my part so I wasn't mad about it. Otherwise, it wasn't ever applicable and the survivors recognized it as a bad move/waste of time (good on them I'd say) or the one bully squad I got recently while playing Freddy. They had the game in the bag and I was playing horribly. Three of them had flashlights and weren't awful at keeping me in chase either. Got a few saves with the lights too. But one generator was left and I down one of them (I had only gotten a total of 3 hooks and no one was on death hook) and the other two come in trying to flashlight save, okay I spin around and head to the hook and I'm fine. Then they decided to body block from full health at the hook that was right beside where I downed their friend. They threw the game in that moment and I gave the random the hatch because they were actually doing generators while not being chased. Post game I see those three all had FTP and Buckle Up but I guess with how they threw it at the end there, they never got a chance to even use it.
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@Seraphor said:
It shouldn't just be a 3K.
It should be: No one escapes through an exit gate.
This way you can 3K and still allow for the possibility of a hatch escape.
Don't really agree with that but that stipulation is at least better than just a 3K unlocking it.
I think there are some older achievements that are harder to get now than they used to be. While Adepts for killer and some hatch based ones have gotten much, much easier while some have gotten more difficult (not adepts). Like The Key to Escape is literally using a key on a hatch now. Much easier than befriending 3 other people and having them communicate and not die to get the hatch after finishing all the generators lmao.
Doing the last gen and the exit gate (Left For Dead achievement) was tough when I did it back in 2017. I can't imagine trying to do that now. Not only do most matches that have you as the last survivor never seem to have only one generator left but the hatch will immediately spawn and open. So your escape is not only temptingly easier that way but the killer is likely looking for it too. If you're on a generator that sounds great until they find the hatch and close it which forces you off the generator and to the exit gates. I noticed some achievements have been reworked to fit how the game has evolved but some still seem to be harder than before like Left For Dead.
Outrun Evil while not too much harder is another I guess is more difficult than before. Before, the killer couldn't close the hatch but could grab you out of it so if you were injured you had the chance they'd M1 you and during cooldown you'd get out. Now, the other option seems like the only option which is be slugged and crawl out by luck. Maybe the Plot Twist perk would work? No clue.
Evil Incarnate was a hard one to also get but now that hatch spawns no matter how many generators are left I could see it being a pain to get. But in complete fairness, it was hard to get back in the day too not only because people (tried to) locker-deny it but before bots, you had people that realized you were instant killing everyone and would just DC either because they don't want to die or they wanted to stop your progress out of spite. Or did they change this? Can you just get infinite Tier III Mikey and mori people now?
There were more I thought weren't changed to accommodate the way the game has changed but looking at the wiki's list of achievements all the others seem fine now. And all the Adepts are easy enough as it is. Them getting hatch on what would be a 4k does suck but in my opinion, it's better than the old double pip requirement. Either slug (sadly) or find hatch first. And what Seraphor said would be acceptable though I'm not crazy about it personally. At least that way you don't have to keep running 3 perks to get it if they do get hatch before you time after time.
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I only care because I haven't played more than a handful of PTB matches in about 5 years and I have a lot of catching up to do lmao. And despite playing a bit more killer than survivor in general, this event has really pushed me to play a much heavier amount of killer. You have a much easier time getting a lot of BP compared to survivor who has to do a lot to have similar results. I understand the idea is that the killer is a solo player and the survivors are four players but with an event like this, I have far more control of the match as a killer. If I could 4K I can at least purposely double hook everyone first and even let them leave with plenty of BP as well or I gave them a fair shot to make it out before anyone had to die. Survivor matches my scoreboard shows anywhere form 35-110k BP and Killer matches I'm seeing 90-155k BP. One is obviously a bit better time vs reward wise and more consistently so.
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Very much agree that both sides can do some annoying, frustrating, and/or toxic things and it'd be nice if people were a bit more considerate on either side of the game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Pretty fine surprisingly. Atual drop in tunneling atleast as survivor, killer is still the same.
Red is blood. We are born of the blood, made by the blood, undone by the blood. All the blood is driving our bloodlust up though...
Next event will grant us eyes?
I came back to this game from the end of 2019 (or whenever Twins were on PTB) about a month ago and felt ultra-rusty. I can't run killers like I did back then, that's for sure. I have some of that old skill but there's so many new killers and perks that I am trying to remember and be familiarized with on top of reacquiring the methods of mindgames and loops and chaining loops, etc that I do horrible as a survivor. Killer feels mostly the same to me until I play Huntress in which it shows it's been almost 5 years.
But survivor games have almost all been very tough (and probably partially due to my rusty execution and outdated information of the game). In most matches, killer is just playing to win immediately, tunneling out what seems to be the weak link and then applying pressure to the other 3 equally from there. Rarely, get a killer that can't do basic chases around windows and walls so they get 0-1 kills because they caught someone in the open a few too many times. But ever since the event started, it felt like many killers were upping their desire to win (a la pressure by tunneling out someone early).
As a killer, I either am just playing normally but intentionally only 2 hooking and letting them go or 2 hooking then going into a 3-4k. Survivors seem about the same as before the event, not much difference in frequency of "bully squads" or anything like that. Did have a 3-man try to bully squad me and then got mad in post-game chat that I played like normal and killed them. I don't know what you'd expect though, if every down I get is met with hook sabo and flashlight Background Player, then I am going to fake pick-ups and also down you if possible and punish you for not doing generators. The last person in that match I let go because they did 3 generators all by themselves while their teammates threw the game.
Some survivors eventually realize I'm doing 2-hook before kills or just 2-hooks and no matter which way I felt about going with the game, I can't help but be tamed by their excitement that they now know or think they won't get killed lmao.
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I can't believe people are arguing about this perk lol. If you don't want to have the potential of a player countering your strategy/playstyle do not give easy reads about what you're attempting to do then. This goes for both sides of any game. If you're trying to get a flashlight save, it's probably a good idea to not run right behind a killer all chase. If you are using Wicked, don't run to the basement mid-chase. If you want to utilize the unhook aspect of Wicked, pray it's a decent main building or in killer shack and just run it like normal. I personally avoid basement hooking most of the time because I feel like if I'm just going to initiate more chases then the time I spend going down and back up the stairs is only ever worth it if I am close enough when they get unhooked. I'd rather just hook you above ground nearby to start applying pressure to anyone on generators.
Some people play this game to win or to the best of their ability, some people want to hit chainsaw sprints only or long distance hatches only, some just want to chill and play casually. Assume though, that if you tell the killer you are running Wicked by clearly running to or right near basement every chase that you might find they will refuse to hook you there.
Also, Blood Moon is on and you get extra bloodpoints for non-basement hooks. That could also be a factor for some.
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Definitely usually a killer sided map. The loops aren't great, some of the rooms are annoying/frustrating. Some rooms have no exit besides the door you came in through and others have a bad pallet and maybe a window to another room. Getting up and down stairs for both sides is annoying. I swear I've seen multiple times where two gens spawn in the courtyard and other times where no generator spawns there which, in my opinion, makes it play out very differently depending on how many are in the courtyard. I loathe this map on either side. As a survivor, I have zero expectations of living and as a killer, I know that the survivors probably are hating that whole match. Sometimes, as a survivor it feels like you think you can make it up/down stairs before another person would die on hook to realize that there are not stairs for awhile and you will have to cover a ton of ground now. So either leave generators earlier than you'd want or risk losing a survivor on stage 2 hook.
Aesthetically, it's great. The two gens related to the achievement that can also be done to unlock the secret if you make it to end game is also really cool.
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I think it's fairly balanced from my experiences with it. Though playing killer on maps like this can be a bit confusing as many have mentioned due to scratch marks blending in. And I don't think they fully blend in (just like they don't fully blend in with the Blood Moon event) but it's the difference of seeing them at a distance or if you would have seen them as they faded out or as you glanced over an area. Instead, you might miss them because they are too similar in color whereas many older maps there's so little red that it's hard to mistaken anything for scratch marks.
And the noises can be confusing on both sides of the match. Stealth killers mess me up here because the centipedes and bushes sometimes make me think I'm about to get got or as a killer, I think it's someone's footsteps for a moment. I think once I was confused why they would drop a flashbang while on the other side of a wall where I wasn't looking and it was just the rattling-like noises I was hearing from the map creatures or fauna.