Agentized
Agentized
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@bravo37 said:
If matchmaking is such that is so disproportionate in player skill that says something about a declining player base, so hiding the fact that you either have a problem with new player numbers or departing seasoned ones or mid level ones walking away from it, I dont believe this is the fix to your problem.
I'm relatively new, started slightly before que times were terrible in my limited experience, a few months before the 7 year anniversary, so I'm not what you'd call good at the game by any stretch. During the first few months of playing the game was engaging, as a killer, and I found the matches to be rather close. As a survivor, random teams seemed 50/50 whether I'd get some sandbags or players that didnt even know how to use perks yet, or we'd get your random p100, so thats always been just a mixed bag it seems, but for the most part I don't seem to recall being utterly outclassed by a killer before this either playing survivor.
Lately I've had nothing but survivors with the ability to endlessly loop, gen rush, and whether they are random or a group of friends out to troll completely one side a match to where I'm close to hanging up the game altogether. I'd say the not very fun matches I've had in the past week or so are 3 to 1 in ratio. I don't play games to be frustrated, so this newly implemented feature makes it fun for your veteran players. Not players like me.
You're absolutely right at this point I'd lobby shop. As a guy who's trying to develop skill and learn the game, I don't find an environment where I'm completely dominated for most matches conducive to learning and enjoying the game.
I'm sure all the higher level players who are doing the destroying of killers or high ranked killers who are getting a group of babies are absolutely loving the idea.
I'm certain if you look at the data you'll see their ranking going up steadily as newer players like me stagnate or get worse.
This is not a welcome change, as I absolutely would leave a lobby after waiting 5/10 mins to join up with a group of level 50+ flashlight holding survivors.
You as a developer need to find some way to either retain a player base or be more inviting to newer ones. Not put a bandaid on the problem by masking a disproportionate skill level in matchmaking.
From the player perspective, if you're enjoying the total domination of lesser skilled players as a skilled and seasoned one, especially due to this change... well I don't see how that's that's very fun at all.
If you're wondering why a killer would go sit in the basement and wait out the time after being flash-banged, permablinded, head-on at every locker, pallet stunned at every corner, and has gotten perhaps 2 hooks in 4 gens, this is why. This cannot be an engaging experience for them either.
Seems to me this speaks to a real problem of a good game hemorrhaging players and not gaining new ones, so my suggestion is focus on how to compete with that rather than just masking it with the inability to see how one sided match ups have become lately.
PSA: lobby shopping is part of the problem that you are complaining about. People who do this are greatly contributing to the MMR imbalance and perpetuating what they see to be as the problem. But instead of acknowledging how bad this is for the whole game, they would like to just be able to keep doing it because it's what's easiest for them. It is NOT a fix.
Is the MMR system the greatest? No. It certainly needs some work or a complete overhaul. BUT.
There are two reasons, aside with the problems with MMR to begin with, why you are constantly getting matches that are above your skill level.
1) A killer of higher skill than you dodged the lobby and you got back-filled in. They lobby shopped and now it's your problem to deal with!
2) Because you said "You're absolutely right at this point I'd lobby shop." it sounds like you haven't been BUT. If you have continuously lobby shopped, dodging all lobbies that you perceived would've been of the slightest inconvenience for you instead of taking them as a learning experience, your MMR is now way higher than your actual skill level so it's pitting you against survivors that it believes you are capable of taking on.
This exact logic exists on the survivor side as well.
You see where lobby shopping is a bad thing overall and actually causes severe imbalances in matchmaking in and of itself?
They need to do away with lobby shopping as a whole, which this update would really help with, and then they can tackle the actual problems with MMR.
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@Zenislev said:
This is why bad decisions like this go through. There's a whole legion of survivors who are only interested in their games going well regardless of what it does to the health of the game, who dogpile anyone who says otherwise.
P21 Wesker main here. Who, despite having way more hours on survivor, never dodges lobbies, doesn't camp, tunnel, or slug even when facing P100's. Runs a non-meta build. And still has a 3k average.
Just play the game.
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@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531630#Comment_3531630
The solution to the problem isn't to give killers less info, it's to let the survivors wait longer. If you don't understand why information is more important to the person playing the 1 in the 1v4 game, then I don't know what to tell you. Ideally the game would show you your MMR, along with the MMR and play times of the survivors you're going up against, as well as who's in a team so that the killer can decide which games are worth slogging through and which aren't. That would be fair, but I'm not going to pretend like that isn't wishful thinking on my part.
I've brought this up before in discussions like this, but I find it absurd that fighting games don't have a problem giving you all the information you could possibly want before a match. If you're playing street fighter 6 for example, you can see the opposing player's rank, their connection type (which is a much bigger deal in fighting games than it is in dbd) and you can open up their profile to see a detailed breakdown of where they stand as a player including how many matches they've played, both on a per character basis and in total, and their win/lose ratio, again, both per character and in total, and you know what, dodging isn't really a problem there because the game's reasonably balanced, and the matchmaking is mostly fair. God forbid you do anything like that in this 1v4 game. That just wouldn't be fair to the 4 players I guess.
In a game that's a 5 person experience, why should the killer be the only one to be able to decide which games are worth slogging through, then?
Fighting games have no problem sharing that information because it's a 1 v 1 scenario where you both have access to the same resources, the same health pool, and the outcome is entirely based on skill alone. You can make the informed choice to dodge, and so can your opponent. And while you and I may be of equal or greater skill than the other, there's a good chance the random Nea is gonna be Urban'ing around the map the whole game even if she has 1k hours therefore being more of a detriment than an aid.
Play time does not equal skill, prestige does not equal skill.
And likewise, DbD and fighting games couldn't be further categories from each other so that was an extremely poor analogy on your part. They're not even close. It also seems like you forgot the part where you can both see each other's info, but then want to apply that to JUST the killer in terms of DbD. Just a device to help push your narrative.
By your logic, the only way it makes sense to keep giving the killer as much information as they already have from the pregame lobby (or more info like you suggest) is by making it so we can see as much about them as they can about us. If the killer can see four P100's with flashlights and toolboxes, then we should be able to see what prestige the killer is and what killer we're going against so we can make that same informed decision to skip the lobby.
But that would cause outrage among killer mains, because y'all are biased and not about actual equality and fairness, but about what benefits y'all the most. You want the lobbies that would give you the highest chance to win, regardless of whether or not that lobby is actually fair for both sides. You don't care about the survivor experience. Just yours. How the tables would turn when half the killers in the roster wouldn't be able to find a game. No one wants to verse a sweaty Blight or Nurse. The Alien is miserable to go against in its current state. Half the players hate Wesker because they face him so much. If I had the choice to skip Plague knowing one of my teammates is constantly going to rescue a sick person off hook and immediately cleanse over and over, I would. We won't even talk about Chess Merchant or the Knight. I could go on.
But that would just cause even worse lobby dodging problems, and skew MMR-made lobbies even more than they already are. Which is why that would be a terrible idea, and I'm of the opinion it should be stripped entirely for both sides. No one should have an advantage before the match even begins.
Some of you don't play both sides, and it shows.
As someone with 3k hours, a P60 Chris that I'm trying to get to P100, pretty much only plays solo, and is currently one of the people who has prestiges hidden-- it makes the world of a difference.
To those of you saying that "prestige targeting isn't a thing". I'd of welcomed you to come play my Chris this past two weeks alone. I've literally watched killers run past other survivors to come chase me at the start of the game. I've been camped. Hard tunneled. The whole nine yards. I've literally had to run DS lately because I've been targeted that hard that frequently. I'm not toxic. I'm not even P100 yet. It's made me question whether I want to keep going because every game, or every other game, some killer decides they have to prove something to absolutely no one by trying to get me down and out as fast as they can. Or, they'd dodge the lobby 4-5 times until that super sweaty killer readied up. Meanwhile, I just want to chill and be able to play the game as my favorite character. I play games for fun, not to stress and sweat my butt off.
None of it happened when I switched to any other character, as my other highest character is Dwight (P22) and everyone else is between prestiges 3-10. I got to have normal games when I played anyone else. Hardly any lobby dodging, if at all. And if there was it was most likely because of my hours since my profile isn't private.
I've definitely been getting targeted and dodged less while playing Chris while prestiges are off, which has made my whole experience a lot better overall. Not entirely since the people who don't have prestiges off can still see mine, or my profile, but it's definitely mitigated it a whole lot. I'm definitely in favor of this change going through for everyone. I'd like to see less lobby dodging because of prestiges, and more fair games all around.